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I only played a few times with this hero, but i really liked it..
Today i tried to build Bash + EP and it worked fine. The thing is.. i can understand why people choose whisper over EP (even though i think attack speed + life steal works great on him, even if he takes more dmg), but why aren't any guides with bash on him?
Did you use his ult at any point during these matches?
Yeah i did. But i use his ulti only to initiate, most of the time i don't use it.
I think whisp helm is great because 300 seconds after you get it off the courier you will have 2 creeps to control and then you can stack ancients and hard camp at the same time while farming lane or enemy jungle or whatever! every time its triple stacked go ult and rape them
You understand that basher has like 12% chance to proc when your on ult form? havent you ever thought why ranged heroes dont buy basher? Ep is trash and basher are trash, there are no heroes that should pick those 2 items up.
Just buy Portal Key and Hellflower on Maliken, Portal key in and Ult people in the face, then Hellflower and auto attack them down and then if you didn't kill them yet you can use Sword throw to either finish them off or fly away.Gank Maliken ftw
No seriously though, just look at the in-game guides, they're good enough.
Standard is something like: Steamboots, Chalice/Power Supply, Whispering Helm, Shrunken, Riftshards, then whatever it doesn't matter because you'll probably win if you got this far anyway (Insanitarius, Daemonic, Behemoth Heart, Symbol of Rage are all good, or just something situational like Nullstone/Hellflower/Savage Mace/Barbed Armor/Genjuro lol). Charged Hammer is decent for attack speed as you can also put the lightning buff on yourself, but I'd refrain from getting it over other mentioned pickups.
Control a creep with Whispering Helm, use that creep to stack Ancients with it every minute, kill the Ancient Stacks for like 1k gold every 3 minutes, rinse and repeat for 400+ GPM and an unstoppable Maliken every game.
Last edited by PrestonLee; 06-24-2012 at 01:04 AM.
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FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY~!
Don't worry guys, Lodestone won't be getting picked up in competitive, your balance forum regulars have assured it in this Lodestone balance thread ;)
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?470528-Lodestone-First-Impressions&p=15618341&viewfull=1#post15618341
Why get basher when you're planning to be in ranged form in every team fight?
Most of the time i don't even use his ulti. But i understand what you're trying to say.Originally Posted by Ackwell1
Don't agree that bash is trash, it's core on some heroes. EP is more like a situational item in my point of view.
Only two heroes that I even ever really consider Basher and on them it's not even core. Elder Parasite? Only one. Maliken's normal Steams, Whispering, Shrunken, Daemonic/Riftshards build works great in 95% of the games with not that much reason to swap it around. Don't need Shrunken? Get Daemonic faster. Someone making Daemonic? Rifts is a huge thing for him.
People don't buy EP on Maliken because they don't plan on sitting on the whispering helm all day. EP Maliken works fine once you get shrunken but Symbol of Rage + Shrunken combo is a lot more dominant late-mid to late game. Basher is dumb for all the reasons mentioned in this thread and more.
Then you should pick a different hero, keeping maliken in melee form is extremely inefficient.
Yeah probably.. Like i said, only played him a few times. But seemed to be a cool hero. Ofc i don't know how to play him the right way yet.
@Haunter: Well it's not like i'm going to buy Steam Boots, Insanitarius, BKB, Daemonic, Riftshards and even Symbol in a single game, anyway... 99% of the games, would only have whisper till the end. Maybe on casual i could have it all, but i usually play normal mode.
But seems like a good strategy to use controled the creep to stack. I'll try that next game.
Btw, wouldn't Shieldbreaker be a good pick instead of whispering?
^I'm not sure if trolling, learn to farm ;O
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FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY~!
Don't worry guys, Lodestone won't be getting picked up in competitive, your balance forum regulars have assured it in this Lodestone balance thread ;)
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?470528-Lodestone-First-Impressions&p=15618341&viewfull=1#post15618341
About the SB thing or about buying all those itens?
Are you saying you usually buy all the itens you need in a single game? Including luxury...
I'm not that good :O
The game usually ends before that...
Forget ep and basher, dont buy those items to anyone and youll be much better.
For maliken I like to get offensive bulwark after whispering helm if I dont need bkb that much. I dislike insanitarius on maliken, because there are better items to go.
Theres many good maliken guides, just follow them steams, whispering, bkb, rifts, daemonic, symbol and something as a last item like geo/mkb.
Maliken has crazy damage potential with just steamboots, shrunken and whispering. Insanitarius is retarded damage if you have good early farm. You don't really need to go Insanitarius though. 250 gpm (which is what you SHOULD be farming at least in 90% of the games) gets you steamboots, whispering, shrunken really early on (probably 20 mins in? haven't played HoN in a few months so disoriented with numbers but I'm relatively sure its around there). Technically, Maliken is really easy to stomp with in matchmaking and especially at low mmr so I would say 300+ gpm is a very very very realistic goal every game. That nets you a symbol and insanitarius at around 40 mins in which is pretty long into the game. Thing is, you're already strong with no items but a shrunken so theres no reason to get more items to make your early-mid game stronger just to sacrifice late game. You want to seal the deal as the game gets longer, not fall off. As a carry, there's no point in taking risks to try and end early. Your job is to be a monster as the game goes on so just stick to it.
@Ackwell1: So.. you should never buy Shieldbreaker on maliken?
I kinda understand what you're saying about EP.. You take more damage and in team fights that wouldn't help.. don't matter what hero you use..
But i don't really agree about bash.. For example, the hero i like the most.. Warbeast.. bash is a great item for wb.
@Haunter: I'm really new playing maliken.. but i've played other carries.. I have about 300 gpm with some, but i almost never have time to buy all the luxury itens.
I agree that Whisper can be better cuz you can stack camps with your controled creep, but i don't think i would upgrade it to symbol most of the games.
I dont know about shieldbreaker, malike could go sb with abyssals tho but I would prefer whispering helm.
The big problem with Shieldbreaker is it keeps Maliken squishier than he should be. Maliken's damage output is already monstrous as it is, and getting strenght items to increase his survivability is what's going to give him more mileage than raw DPS items. In combination with Whispering Helm's bonus armor and lifesteal regen it makes Maliken a monster that is extremely difficult to take down because the lifesteal just keeps him going without dying.
Shieldbreaker only applies on the target being hit (one target whereas his ultimate hits multiple targets), and again keeps Maliken squishier than he should be, and even worse takes up that precious attack mod slot that SHOULD be lifesteal, again to make Maliken near impossible to take down especially after Shrunken is picked up. Abyssal doesn't cut it because it doesn't work with Maliken's ranged ultimate cleave, the main reason to be picking Maliken.
The exception to raw DPS pickups is Riftshards because the critical applied by Riftshards actually works with the splash damage from Maliken's ranged AoE auto attacks in ultimate form, which is why it's recommended as a core pickup for him.
So in summary, shieldbreaker is bad because it takes up that valuable attack mod that should be lifesteal to make Maliken near impossible to kill, and it also keeps him squishy and only applies the Shieldbreaker debuff on one target at a time when Maliken's ultimate is used to annihilate teams with his AoE ranged Cleave. Rifthsards is much better for this purpose than Shieldbreaker because the crit works with his Cleave.
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FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY~!
Don't worry guys, Lodestone won't be getting picked up in competitive, your balance forum regulars have assured it in this Lodestone balance thread ;)
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?470528-Lodestone-First-Impressions&p=15618341&viewfull=1#post15618341
Oops, double posted instead of editing sorry
These are all you really need to make Maliken a monster:
Steamboots = Very nice cheap survivability and great attack speed, and also gives the option of Stat swapping to int to make spells cheaper.
Whispering Helm = great lifesteal, great farming tool (control minion to stack Ancients and kill with your ultimate for huge GPM), and very nice bonus armor.
Shrunken = Coupled with Whispering Helm armor+lifesteal makes him a monster and extremely hard to take down, allows him to ignore most disables and spell damage, along with giving him +26 more damage and 190 more health to work with.
Riftshards = his damage booster, makes his cleaving attack in ultimate form able to critical which is HUGE and can decimate entire teams in seconds.
Everything else is situational, just pickup whatever luxury you feel you need after.. but the four mentioned are your standard pickups that make Maliken the monster he's known to be, and in most games you can't go wrong with those. If you feel you can get away with Shrunken because there aren't too many disables to worry about then replace that slot with Insanitarius for HUGE damage output earlier on.
Last few pickups should be an attack-speed oriented pickup to help him just completely rape teamfights with cleave, which can be any of the following for good effect: Daemonic, Geometer's Bane, Charged Hammer, Genjuro, or just Nullstone. Most people go for the Daemonic but whatever you feel you need most, and sometimes other heroes on your team get Sol's instead of you so it isn't as important. With that said Daemonic is GREAT for more armor, which deals with your only weakness since Shrunken makes you immune to magic damage anyway.
After that your damage output is already over the top and all you really need is more survivability so finish it off with a Behemoth's heart and/or upgrade that Whispering to Symbol if the game goes that far, that's really all you need to dominate with Maliken. You don't need Savage Mace often but you can get it over Behe Heart if the enemy carry picks up a Wingbow. The other above pickups are more important though in my opinion, only get Savage after your core and that attack speed pickup.
So tl;dr -
Steamboots, Whispering, Shrunken/Insanitarius - your survivability core pickups.
Riftshards - Your damage output core to make you rape teamfights with ultimate's ranged cleave.
Attack speed (Daemonic/Geometers/Genjuro/Charged Hammer) - helps you rape teamfights faster with Riftshards critical.
Then whatever, more survivability (Behemoth's Heart/finish Symbol, or Nullstone), or whatever luxury.
My 2 cents, hope this helps.
Last edited by PrestonLee; 06-24-2012 at 05:16 PM.
-
FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY~!
Don't worry guys, Lodestone won't be getting picked up in competitive, your balance forum regulars have assured it in this Lodestone balance thread ;)
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?470528-Lodestone-First-Impressions&p=15618341&viewfull=1#post15618341
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