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I've been wondering howmuch difference it would make in mana regen between a ring of sorcery and an arcane staff.
Ofcourse I do know the difference between the items and which to pick up in which occasion but sometimes I tend to play an hero that needs the mana upkeep and am wondering if I should get a sorcery or build an arcane which I could use later for an hellflower.
Anyway my question is which is better for the mana upkeep for URSELF (I know sorcery is also for team but just help with my question).
It has to be Arcane staffOriginally Posted by Uroefl
It gives you a decent mana regeneration,damage and also may up it to Hellflower,making you even more powerful and giving even more mana regeneration.
Sorcery is 105 mana for yourself every 33 seconds if you use it THE INSTANT its off of cooldown every single time. Arcana is +75% regen continously. Arcana for just your own mana up keep is greater than a ring. especially if you build it in to a HF where as sorcery is done and 105 mana on the majority of heroes is MAYBE 1 spell every 33 seconds.
It all comes down to which you need more, burst regeneration or sustained regeneration.
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This. While Greater Arcana may provide more sustained regeneration, Ring of Sorcery can provide a quick burst of mana enabling you to chain more spells together in a sequence. It effectively increases your maximum mana pool available for any given chain of spells by 105 (in addition to that provided by it's stats). This can be vital for heroes with a small mana pool but high-cost spells such as Behemoth.
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I am of the firm opinion that subtracting "raging stupidity" from anyone's voice can only cause them to sound more like myself.
People tend to forget the maximum mana portion of ring of sorcery. Thats why its really good pickup on low int support heroes. I tend to pick it up almost always on behemoth and engineer mostly for this reason. (Vanilla lvl 6 engineer dont have mana to cast lvl 1 keg, lvl 3 turret and ulti) If my farm is really bad I pick up power supply so that i can cast everything in teamfight.
There are few other heroes I personally like to get ring of sorcery as a core. Tempest, Keeper of forest and Electrician. Electrician because of his shield and the manaregen is enough to farm with skills. Tempest and Keeper due to early max mana and for mid-game pushing power with team. (Basically team can spam their aoe to take creeps out).
Other than these 5 heroes I dont see a reason to pick RoC over arcane staff. Ring of sorcerys major issue is that it doesn't build for anything. Arcane staff builds in hellflower which is really good item and has effectivity during all game and is never bad pick up or too late to pick it up.
I dont recommend building riftshards (Maybe on magmus if you are dominating mid and already have pk).
Now to the actual answer to OP.
Arcane staff provides a % based regen, so its better pick up for int heroes and very little actual mana regen on str/agi. Agi carries/heroes usually get their mana regen from runed axe or nullstone. STR heroes usually dont spam their abilities but if they do they should get either Blood Chalice or ring of sorcery.
I pick up a mana ring on almost every single hero in the game. It's utility to yourself and your team is invaluable. I have even had relative success with rushing mana ring on Valk, Sand Wraith and other carries. The ability to spam spells for farming and not be out of mana when a teamfight requires your assistance or you need mana to escape a gank is incredible and should never be underestimated. You may not always be the right person to purchase the mana ring, but you should always try and encourage at least one person on your team to buy one. I prefer to have a team with two.
Just think in terms of how many times you've ever had your team win a teamfight, maybe even with a genocide, but no one on your team pushes after because they are out of mana and it's risky to push with no spells. Saying "Let's push" will never be as effective in getting your team to push as saying "let's push, I have a mana ring."
i hate valks with manaring.you are wasting potential there.Now i understand that scout needs his runed axe to farm,so if you need mana regen on valk to spam spells you can get a nullstone?Also,the initator(kraken,pebb,behe etc.) should already have his core itemskey and manaring.
I did say it is an unorthodox pick up and certainly not ideal, but if no one on your team is picking one up, then you may need to. Having a mana ring or two on a team can be game changing. So you know, it's not my core build. I prefer to go for Null first, but in a few games, I really needed the quick mana and no one on the team was building one so I did. It's not a bad item on her, though it does delay her DPS a bit. However, I'd rather build a mana ring every day of the week to speed my farm on a Valk than building alchemist bones since the latter gives zero benefit to my team.i hate valks with manaring.you are wasting potential there.Now i understand that scout needs his runed axe to farm,so if you need mana regen on valk to spam spells you can get a nullstone?Also,the initator(kraken,pebb,behe etc.) should already have his core items
EDIT: I reread my post. Apparently I did make it sound like it was part of my core build on ALL heroes. It's a situational pick-up on any hero, but you CAN put one on ANY hero if your team needs it (except Ra, I guess). Any mana-intensive hero can carry one and you should try and have at least on in every team was my point. Sorry if that was not clear the first time.
Last edited by Jenova26; 06-27-2012 at 11:10 AM.
Ring of Sorcery gives you roughly 3.12 mana regen per sec. This is only true when you use it the instant its off cd.
Using Arcana the same mana regen can be achieved when your hero has for example: 1 base mana regen and 14 Int, 0.75 base mana regen and 20 Int or 0.5 base mana regen and 26 Int.
You can use the formulas in http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ommon-Formulas to determine the exact values. You can get 2 Scarabs for 650 and in most cases get better mana regen than when using Arcana.
Ring of Sorcery is a trash item, not worth to waste gold on. There are better alternatives that provide greater benefits - mana tube+power supply, mana tube+ring of the teacher, life tube+blood chalice, etc.
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I actually pick up this habit from dota before anyone started reading guides. As unorthodox as it is, it works very well.
Ring of sorcery is nice for some intel heros as well as other STR/AGI roamers with small mana pool (behe, magmus). I personally like it on Artesia since the 400 mana bonus is really nice for a heavy spam-based hero and the active synergizes nicely with her ultimate giving your whole team endless mana for teamfights and pushes (135 mana from ring + 20 mana/sec from ultimate aura).
Last edited by zstarkey42; 06-28-2012 at 03:43 AM.
Agreeing with zstarkey42 and Jenova26. I find that it really comes down to what team lineup you have. Do you have a lineup thats really strong when people start hitting lvl 6/11(early-mid game) or do you have those two heroes that really requires shrunken + and extra dps item before you really wanna push for the base. If you have early game, you get mana rings; often times you wanna get more than just 1. You want to be able to keep the fight going and make the enemies constantly occupied with defending their turf; as a result they will die so easy when you and your team is able to get off those extra 2-4 spells.
If you aim for late game you want to have your hellflower ASAP, the fact that you can stop an enemy carry from popping shrunk is godly.
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so what is the best mana regen?ros,chalice,bottle,rotT??all of them?
The lawyer answer would be "it depends". Different heroes need different types of regen. Take, for instance, a Zephyr mid. He does not use a lot of mana and can regen health on his own pretty quickly (Cyclones & HotBL). Since he doesn't really need much mana, a Mana Ring is a waste of money. He doesn't spam mana often enough in lane to need a bottle. He doesn't really benefit from Ring of the Teacher as much as most heroes. Usually, if you need mana on him, a Power Supply and maybe a Chalice are perfect to sustain a mana pool. Compare that to a Polly in lane who is constantly spamming mana, his combo will leave him at empty mana, therefore, you will likely need several combinations off the list to sustain his mana pool.
However, the simple answer is that mana regenerated throughout the course of a game versus the gold spent to get the item, you can't do much better than a Ring of Sorcery. Chalice will also give you mana on demand, but it's at the cost of HP meaning you typically only want one on a high hp hero or on a hero with a bottle to maximize the benefit (1225g). Compare that to a Ring of Sorcery which is mana for your entire team (assuming they are in range). Activating a mana ring in the middle of a team fight may be the deciding factor between a won or lost fight. No other item has that impact (in this category).
well i was making bottle,chalice and ros on midas and i thought it is a bit too much.
Yea, Chailce and RoS is a tad overkill and bottle is an awful item if you're not mid (exception being that you're in sidelane, solo and mid is not going bottle). Generally, I will go RoS OR Bottle/Chalice, but never both. You could have gone RoS or Bottle/Chal and used the money you would have spend on the other on a manatube working toward a Nullstone or picked up the INT book for Tablet of Command depending on what build you were going. Overall, it's nice to have tons of regen, but you should be careful that you're not doing at the cost of not getting any real items for midgame.
well if midas is not mid where he should get bottle,then he either becomes support(so ros would be nice since chalice doesn't give mana to your team and takes hp too),either something that can take farm and push fast creepwaves,snowballs,initiates etc.
Incorrect. Just because he's not mid does not mean he has to support. I have only ever played Midas mid once and I don't play support Midas. Even if you give ALL of the creeps for the first 8 minutes to your sidelane partner, Midas is STILL not a support. No hero that can farm that well should ever be a pure support (see also: Pyro). That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy the occassional ward to help the team out, but a support Midas is a waste of a hero. He's a ganker and a seriously hard and mobile push hero. There is no hero in the game that can push as hard as Midas AND be as mobile. Once he gets a ring, it's damn near impossible to get a creep wave all the way to Midas' 3rd Tier towers. That is not characteristic of any support heroes I know of.
That being said, Midas is a great solo laner (thanks to his escape mech) and could pick up a bottle in that case, but I'd still rather a couple mana pots and a fast mana ring over bottle/chalice on him. I would only bottle/chalice on Midas in mid and break down the Chalice for RoS after boots and PK (or whatever first item).
I'm not entirely sure that I understood your question fully, but hopefully I answered your question at least in part.
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