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Hello friends. I would like to know where I can find a decent guide on how to properly support and babysit in the laning and mid phase of the game. One that hopefully includes(not all but at least some of the following)
Where the best spots to ward are. I know about the two spots on the river and the spots in both the hellbourne and legion jungle, but how do I know where it is best to put a ward at a certain time in the game? When should I place the first ward? Should the first ward be on one of the rune spots?
When youre babysitting a carry do you let them have ALL the last hits? I mean ill normally get the ones that they will obviously not get, but how much should I have around the 10 min mark? Also during laning you should be harassing as much as you can correct? It makes sense that way since it forces the other team to use their regen and helps to keep them off the creeps, or should i mainly be focusing on helping the carry get their last hits and denying the crap out of creeps?
What other types of responsibilities does the support role entail?
What should I be doing during teamfights? it seems like anytime I get involved in one I get hella-stomped. Do I just need to be more careful and stay behind the others, or should I be sacrificing myself for the sake of a good initiation?
Honestly I don't think there's one good guide for the whole supporting spectrum and would probably be better if you got a mentor along with you playing. So many of those things are just situational depending on line-ups, level-differences, heck even opponent itembuilds change how you should act in lane, when you should ward and how you should act in teamfights. Not to mention your own hero selection.
This ward-guide is quite outdated but it has atleast some of the more common ones. When I get back to my apartment I'll look into other things if I can find anything helpful. http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...de-Image-Heavy
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for (for the warding part anyways). Yeah I've been trying to dig around and look at different hero guides to see if any of them have support tips but its hard to find a guide that is just support based. >.< Anyways, do you know of anyone who mentors? I dont really have any money right now though so it would have to be free. D:
i'd be happy to show you some things in game if you'd like
like knowing what support to choose, where to ward depending on the pace of the game
which items to pick up
positioning
and how to get your noob carry 400gpm+ ;D
Hey i am basically a support player, and i would love to try and help u out
Lets talk ingame, add me
Project Epoch guys also mentor free or you could chat with these guys above.
Epoch does not accept trainees anymore, I guess it is too crowdedOriginally Posted by Farosarg
As for CKs, I would tend to let the farmer get all of the CKs he/she can get, while denying and harassing like a boss.
There are no 'best' spots to ward.
My rules of warding
1) Ward on need
2) Ward where they don't ward
First one comes with time. You learn to not place wards too early. You learn to not ward the river when you guys are trying to rax.
Second one is slightly hard - just requires a bit of map awareness. Be aware of what those opposing supports have at all times. So often, I see clueless support ward, get counter-warded, ward in the exact same spot, get counter warded again.
You can choose to place the first ward at a defensive positon that covers the rune ward or the more typical river spots. You can choose to do this at 0:00 or 2:00. In pubs, you'll probably want to place it at 2:00 because no one moves out of their lane for 12 minutes.
Ideally all the CK should go to the carry. If you stack/pull + help set up ganks properly then you have all the income you need for boots, wards, tps + few support items (tablet, astro, ss, void). However, if times are tough it's not bad to snag a few ck to help you get closer to those 20 minute bootsRegarding harassing/denying, it's always situational. You just have to weigh out the situation quickly to decide if it's more feasible to start denying your creeps (you usually won't want to do this if your creep wave is perfectly in front of your tower) or harass the enemy. Keep in mind that if you harass, you could pull the creep wave to your tower which is bad. You should also counter-ward your pull camp as soon as possible. I see supports just say "**** it" so many times and just leave it uncontested. Their lane gets pushed up and they can't do anything about it - they end up losing.
In teamfights, you need to position yourself so that you're closer to the back. You need to be able to safely cast spells and help your teammates. Trees and fog are a support's best survivability asset in teamfights.
Hahahah hey.
That's a great guide idea! I've been thinking of a topic to do next and I think this will be the one.
Yeah well you would not benefit from them anyways
I think if you are a great support in the 1500-1600 you should have lane dominance by 10 minutes, maybe 1 creep kill and 5 denies. you should have 2 wards up at least one on rune and either a defensive / aggressive one on the lane and then you should have quite a few camps stacked but what do i know xD
All i want to contribute is this - NEVER pull creep without stacking. It will mess your lane up. You will not deny more than 1 creep and your lane will get pushed up. So counterproductive.
http://www.goldhorde.com/hon/hon-ctrl+f-guide.html look at the bottom you have tons of guides under the hero ones.They are about anything not only supporting.Some may be a little outdated(like runes at 00,or a few things) but that information is pretty useful.
Depends on what you want. If you pull a single camp (not stacked) you will eventually push your lane. This will result in your creeps standing in their tower. Which means the lane will get pushed back to you.
I usually don't play support, but I did try a stab at it a while back and managed to solo an exclusive support account to around 1860 (roughly 100 games), so I think I can give you some advice from the reference point of at least a low 1800's support.
Picking a Lane: As a support player I would recommend that you always try to lane in the pull lane (bot for legion, top for hellborne). Laning in the other side lane is almost always a bad idea as a support hero unless you plan on playing some brutal lane combo or are trying to counter a combo. If for some reason you cannot lane in the pull lane, I would highly recommend either roaming, duel lane mid, or trilane as these are all viable options. Just be aware that in lower rated games this will most likely make teammates angry.
Harassing:
-You don't have to be super aggressive when harassing, but try to get at least 1 for 1 harass in, so if an enemy attacks a creep hit them once at least, if they hit your team hit them once at least. Try not to take too much damage from creeps if your heavily punishing an enemy and expect them to initiate on you if you put them in a position where they know they will be punished heavy.
-Understand that in general support heroes will take more damage than agi ranged heroes. Avoid 1 for 1 harass if you know you will take more damage than the enemy, but don't make this a priority as you need to harass them if they harass your carry.
-It's completely OK to take CS from your carry. If you feel a sudden urge to have a ward or a pot or boots don't hesitate to take CS from your carry, they will be sitting in the lane farming for a while so it's more important for you to get those small items right when you need them, because you will be moving around the map more often when you get them.
Typical Laning Phase(pull lane):
-Generally speaking your goal is to allow your carry to make CS attempts without getting punished heavily and pay attention for potential hero kills. Unless the opponents have 2 ranged heroes you should be doing a lot of harassing, but play safe. It's easy to overextend when your harassing often.
-Typically whether your lane lands a kill or not will be dependent on how agressive your carry is. If your combo demands that you initaite first to be most effective try communicating with your lanemate, usually "let me know if you want to go on them" will be enough.
-If they haven't warded the pull, double stack it and pull unless your fairly certain you will lose a fight over the disputed neutral creeps.
-Try to avoid pulling single stacked creeps unless your intentionally pushing the lane or getting quick bonus xp/gold. Example: quick bonus xp nets you and your teammate lvl 5 when your opponents are lvl 4 and you plan to go for a kill using the level advantage.
Ganking:
-as support It's ok to leave your lane early in the game to gank/harass mid or jungle, but not required. To give you an idea, as support I usually will do this about half of my games. I would recommend if this isn't something you typically do, to just try it once during lane phase in a few games to get an idea of what benefits it can give your team. Also, if your lane if performing bad, put leaving your lane to gank higher on your priority list. And if you find yourself in a situation where your lane is going horrible, you must leave your lane, understand this isn't as detrimental to your team because your the support player, you can still make yourself useful out of lane.
-be patient when ganking, as support your usually under the least amount of stress to gain quick levels which means you can usually be patient when ganking unless your carry asks you to come back to lane.
Warding Early Game:
-You will want to be placing wards throughout the entire game, starting from laning phase. As support, typically the only wards you will be placing yourself is a ward that can see pull lane river rune or in front of the enemy tower in pull lane, if they have a jungler you may want to place one either in middle of jungle or in jungle near your lane.
-After blue ward spawns in the item shop you might want to buy one to kill off any pullcreep wardblock, personally in this situation whether I blueward will depend on whether I want to ability to move the creep line closer to my tower or not while keeping in mind that I will miss 1 minute of neutral creep regardless and that I may never find the yellow ward.
Warding Mid/Late Game:
-Typically it's easiest to decide where to place a ward when you think of it in terms of, what ward spot will make your job easiest, no more asking the carry where he wants a ward! Where do you want a ward so you don't get ganked so that you can sit around contemplating where to place more wards? Warding in this way happens to help the team out fairly well in most cases and over time you will learn warding down much better than always asking other players. As a support player it will be hard to maintain ward domainance against the enemy support if your always asking teammates where to ward.
-Your team will utilize your wards. The location of your wards is something that as a support player you should learn from experience because it's a part of this game that relies heavily on your playstyle and strategy that you become accustomed too.
-Ward dominace is much easier to maintain than it is to obtain in HoN, so stay ahead of the ward game. Always try to get your wards up near popular ward locations first, this is the easiest way to spot the enemy placing wards and start counterwarding known enemy wards earlier than later. If you spot an enemy placing a ward, it's usually best to immediately send a blue ward on the monkey, usually I wont even bother to tell my team unless I don't think I'll be able to kill it alone.
-If you plan on counterwarding and then warding youself, almost always use your blue ward first,if you do in fact discover an enemy ward you may want to place your yellow ward in a different location. Don't let them freely see the location of your wards if you can help it.
Late game:
-For the support is similar to other roles in the late game. Keep in mind as support you can focus more of your efforts than any other roles into map awareness, so your best to try to use this, if your extra lazy at least use pings on map.
-Even late game your carry(s)might still be farming, if you spot an incoming gank, warn them as they are probably less likely to notice than you are.
-Understand you are most likely the squishest player on your team and you probably don't make good bait. You should be spending most your time on ward maintenance while looking for kinks in your opponents and mistakes they may make. Make sure to warn teammates of potential baits. This is the stage in the game where the victors of teamfights count most, so focus more of your attention in this stage of the game on getting the advantage in any potential teamfights and map awareness, don't get caught in a gank!
This ended up being quite a bit longer than I originally anticipated but hopefully good information that you can use.
And some words for encouragement, despite the fact that most players will tell you, to get higher mmr the fastest is to "learn mid lane" I personally find playing support almost just as easy (Personally I've never gotten as high as support but then again I rarely play exclusively support), the important thing for improving your game and mmr is to pick a single role and stick with it and I think you'll find support role gives you the least headaches.
Last edited by dpunk; 06-24-2012 at 06:41 PM.
If you wish to control the lane to your own tower that is. But if you wish to get an early towerpush going and not static-farm the lane, one good way is to do a single-pull, kill the creeps from the camp so that you have the extra creepwave coming along. Add in something like Ophelia coming with a few creeps of her own to push, it is pretty easy to get one down.
Double-post because lazy. It's a good post that I wish to elaborate further on.
I don't really agree with this point. Usually you want your carry and the hard-support on the easy lane, that is true, but most supports can be played agressively as well in agressive dual-lanes on the off-lane. The old Kraken-Demented lane didn't even have to care about the enemy tower that much as they were able to dive without problems. Plague is amongst the most effective off-laners because of the deny. Only a few of the supports actually do have a hard time on the off-lane. It is also the best lane to roam from after your farmer in that lane is able to be fine on his own.
Depends a lot on the match-up. If you know the lane you are facing you can grab extra set of runes of blight to harass even more agressively than usual, even enough to zone away the opponent. Any 600 range support can do this with sufficient auto-attack harass especially if opponent is a carry/low range support in a hard lane. This is even more important if the opponent is solo. Grab extra consumables and then go to town on them with auto-attacks while using the consumables as you go to keep your health up and push them away from the creeps. Just make sure that you don't take unnecessary creep or tower-damage as you go.
Most of the time this is true. However if the lane is relatively even, you'll want to still have as much presence as you can in the lane as to not sacrifice it completely. Ganking is fine, just don't sacrifice your carrys farm while you do it. This is actually one of the reasons why picking hard carry that needs sitting can be bad for your game. If you actually can't use the support elsewhere because the hard-carry lane is not under control, the support can be stuck there.
This is all very well said. Only thing to add here is that generally I have a rule for my warding that makes sure that I don't spend them too eagerly as they are in limited supply. "Two to use, one to keep" meaning you'll want to have max of three wards on the map at once unless you need a big situational ward placed somewhere. So you use two for the more general places and keep the third and any that happen to stack into your inventory for when you need to have a sudden increase in vision, be it for push, gank or defend or in case your 'core' wards get counterwarded because at that point even little vision is better than no vision and having those extra wards can be incredibly useful.
Positioning is a big key here because most of the time opponents will want you dead as soon as possible because your spells can still be a huge asset in a teamfight that drags on. Pace yourself away from the others to the side or further back, be ready to place a ward if you need to have sight further away from the expected area of conflict and toss in your spells and autoattacks and then retreat and kite as necessary. Don't be afraid of 'going in' a bit late, let the initiation happen and then use your spells when they are at their most effective. Just don't sit on them too long.
Last edited by Farosarg; 06-25-2012 at 12:25 AM.
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