I'm starting to think that Ravenor is pretty much completely useless without a very good farm/kill spree early game(or both), his Q is useless mid to late game, and so is his Storm Blades, which honestly does not offer much burst, his ultimate is also useless as pointed out it doesn't gain charges nearly fast enough.
He's fun as hell, but very weak.
The hero is supposed to be "the carry that counters armour" yet this heros carry capablity is extremely limited. His QWE are all conditional as to wether they actually do anything and his ult does not provide enough of a steroid to make this character a threat. This hero can suffer some mad mana issues and for a carry is rather lacking late game. Lets cover the skills.
Q - Mana expensive with levels and difficult to hit with no real scaling with levels. Puts ravenor in the thick of things and will almost always be used to attack an enemy position. Suggestions? Speed up with more levels, lower mana costs, additional crowd control?
W - As a melee hero getting off two auto attacks is actually quite tough, any hero that isnt stunned will most likely use some CC and prevent this skill even being used. The 50 attack speed buff isnt enough, the spell hits creeps more often on the lane and has a low range for finding new targets. The cooldown is high for such a weak spell. This is also Ravenors main source of damage. Suggestions? Cooldown decrease, longer duration, more attack speed.
E - This spell triggers when the hero is auto attacked. It doesnt work when spells hit ravenor. Its damage is puny and has a high cooldown between attacks meaning that its unlikely to actually affect more than a few auto attacks. This spell does early game pewpew where spells are king and auto attacks are slow it is terrible later on. Suggestions? Lower cooldown/higher damage, work when harmed by any source of damage, splash damage, lower mana cost and cooldown.
R - The only thing keeping Ravenor in combat, the only thing that actually even appears carry about this hero. But dont be decieved. Movement speed for chasing helps him stay in the fight and is the best aspect of this skill. Longer chases leave him out of breath as he has no means to damage outside of close range for keeping this spell up. This skill is a mighty weak steroid for a carry and doesnt let him do too much extra damage. Relatively speaking Ravenor attacks quite slowly and has no way to garantee charges on this passive. Suggestions? Magic pen, Attack speed, debuff resistance, better charge duration. Ultimately this skill could actually work if the rest of the set wasnt so bad.
Ravenor is an early game nuker with conditional, yet average damage nukes. This hero is ment to carry but doesnt really have any strong steroids. This hero is useless if he isnt constantly in the thick of things.
Building and playing Ravenor.
The hero needs CC resistance, survivability (a lot) and attack speed so that he is actually dangerous at auto attacking past mid game. This means he will need a shrunk and he needs one asap. Mana regen is an issue and needs to be addressed. The character really wants to grab some attack speed as well. But wait this heroe's skill set is early game. This doesnt translate into a workable playstyle as the Hero will either be focused on farming neglicting his strongest period to become a mediocre carry or a ganker where his unreliable spells means unreliable ganks meaning a lot of wasted time and poor farm. This heros magic damage is bad and tanks build magic defense and hp early anyway rendering the concept of this hero as being an armour breaker as just a poor choice where armour stacking only happens mid, late game at this heroes disadvantage. Cannot carry, meh ganker.
So why pick this hero?
Having played the hero quite a bit on my alt acct, he's pretty fun and actually fairly strong. His farming is not up to snuff with other hard carries, and thus, you will not outcarry other hard carries in any extended game, but he is definitely stronger early on than almost any other carry and relies on early kills/items to snowball. The other big issue is he only has a peusdo-escape, little tankability, and little control. In other words, this is a high risk hero, in that if you have a bad start - you're screwed. This alone guarantees he will not be a common competitive pick up.
The biggest issue is likely his ultimate, and how easily he is countered by magic resistance. Some help might be giving passive armor pen attached to his ultimate (not reliant on his ultimate being on); say, +2/4/6 permanent magic armor pen at 6/11/16. I have a feeling that would go a long way into making him a legitimate carry. He'd still suffer from being somewhat high risk, but I mean hey, there are very few carries that are relevant at all stages of the game (and this would make him relevant late game, which he currently struggles with).
I don't think I'd like to see his other skills touched much. Q is very good and strong if used properly, and is one of the higher skill-cap abilities in the game (you can do anything from initiate, counter initiate, escape, chase blinkers, interrupt casts etc with it).
His E ability is pretty garbage, and I really only rely on it for farming a tiny bit faster, but I have a feeling enhancing it would just make this hero too strong. I guess it would be nice against a melee-heavy team, but those are really rare.
His W is strong and somewhat fun. Wouldn't touch it.
Last edited by sharbarachu; 07-10-2012 at 05:35 PM.
I find Ravenor's lacking a lot to be a carry due to the fact that his skill set let him down as from mid/late game where other carries will still maintain their efficiency. For instance, as mention previously, Ravenor is very much a high risk hero as it is for the moment. If he don't get the early kills then he is pretty much going to have a hard time throughout the game and will end up in a terrible position by late game. If I have to point out some of what I would call flaw, it will be as follows.
Q - This simply lacks speed. It have quite a long range but if cast from long range then most person are able to dodge it quite easily. Some other time, casting it within the 600 units range for instance while you are running towards an enemy would consist of Ravenor stopping, cast the ball and wait for it to land... Ravenor might have close that distance by just keep moving towards the target anyway and blow the Q in their face for the stun. Simply put, it needs a speed boost. Late game this skill becomes useless when most hero can have +400 movement speed with Ghost Marchers/Frostburn/etc. To be noted that Devo's hook is quicker than this and Artesia's spell lands on enemy much easier (taking these 2 as example because of the long range).
W - I don't have much to add to this one, what needed to be said was already well said in previous posts.
E - I'm not sure what this one is about. I don't even see the utility of leveling this skill up instead I would prefer to max out Q and W first. By the time I have a level 4 E, the damage dealt is negligible. 0.9 seconds of cooldown on this thing is just terribly high specially mid game/late game. It does helps farming but to a very little extent. Its preferable to save mana when farming and not use the E since Rav's mana pool is quite limited already. This skill needs a buff in the form of, maybe, a lower cool down from that 0.9 seconds.
R - Tensler (poster above) covered well the problem and possible fix for this one. The R can really influence Rav's potential to carry.
In the current form, Ravenor is just a high risk hero. If someone wants to pick a carry, there is much better one in the list that can carry and farm better/faster than Ravenor. This hero is in need of some buff here and there (as stated above) in order to make him a potential pick specially in competitive games.
A hero with +120 magic damage to attacks and +120 movement speed on top of boots running towards you is pretty scary, but charges run out way too quickly, after about 20 seconds, he has to rebuild all of his charges, he can't really farm with his charges either, because they run out.
Imo, He's a semi carry that relies on his early game power to get farm but he might be a roamer at level 2/3 too, with his powerful early burst.
He could just be a myrmadon in a sense, being much better at a role not intended by S2.
i've literally dropped from 1660 to about 1600 by picking all ravenor straight for about 10 games , I win my lane and get free farm and still end up losing.. In my opinion i just feel that he's underpowered...like his 2nd spell has a 16 second cooldown! and his 3rd spell also has a longer cooldown..This hero requires too muich farm but even with that farm there is still better carries and chances are you will get out carried..I like rav ulty i think its pretty boss and first spell is okay too but it can be better. IMO i just feel rav requires too much farm and the problem is..all her spells have long cooldowns...
My suggestion, is either buff the first spells damage or increase the bat blast speed or even decrease the cooldown a tad bit.. With the second spell, i just feel 16 second cooldown is pretty bad, spell should be atleast half the cooldown that it has already. 3rd spell..either buff the duration of it or decrease the cooldown..ulty IMO is fine as is, becuase after you8 cast all your spells your lookin at max charges with continuous attacks kinda like Ursa warrior from dota. haha..
IMO new hero is pretty sweet, just needs a few tweaks to make a a reliable pick in any matches. 2nd spell 16 second cooldown, yea GG.
Even if you play a really bad ass ravenor just like me :P, you won't reap the rewards from it because she is too underpowered compared to other heroes...
- Use the Q to block people's path when chasing them (or initiate if you feel confident)
- Build survibility items early since he doesn't need damage
- Spam your spells the moment you have them for harass/last hitting
The one time I randomed that guy, I won my midwar game and was owning the moment I understood how he worked. Yes, that is midwars, but midwars only make op heroes more op, and weak heroes weaker. It shows their potential and/or their lack of. He's a second corrupted disciple.
From what I've seen, I dont think his lightning deal the correct damage. It felt like he was dealing WAAAAY MORE than the 100 something damage it is supposed to deal. I've played revenant a lot to know that ravenor's lightning deal more damage than revenant's (3 shotting armaddon isn't something that revenant does at level 7, yet I did it with ravenor)
Good early game, bad later. My head translates this to a ganker/thingy like Pebbles or whatnot with the same farm priority and purpose.
He's pretty okay at this, but he's so slow unless charged that you need a PK or something, or at least I had most success with this. Frostburn or other stuff is just lame cause he won't outcarry anything good, as I see it. I tried doing the farming game with him but it simply doesn't work, at least not where I play.
I guess I'll have to wait and see how the hero settles before I make my final judgement on the hero, perhaps something surprising as stats Gemini will surface and take the
playerbase by surprise.
Stats are like women in bikinis, they are interesting to look at however they don't show you everything.
I really don't see where the shield fits in, nor do I see any reason for Q to cost so much.
He's underpowered, and here's why:
1: Q is awful. Very, very awful. Why is it awful? Because it's slow when it shouldn't be slow. It's FAR weaker than any other blink stun in the game.
a: The projectile is very, very slow. Like molasses slow. Devourer without boots sees it coming and sidesteps it with PLENTY of time to spare.
b: It only does 250 damage. That's very, very low for such an unreliable ability.
c: While I hate it to compare two abilities side by side, compare it to lava surge, sword throw (LOL it's like 1/3 as good), or any other blink stun that a strength hero has.
2: W is a good ability. Multi target magic damage that does "meh" damage, but it increases his attack speed while he has the buff, which is a great touch.
3: E needs to work on enemy spells. It's horrible for jungling because it only affects a limited number of targets. Either make it work on unlimited targets in an AoE around the target it hits, or make it work on enemy spells. That way it will be good for something other than "hoping" enemies will hit you so you can build up stupid amount of ult charges.
4: R - There's nothing wrong with this ability; or there wouldn't be, if Q worked. The problem is that to get the movespeed bonus from this ability, you have to gain charges. To gain charges, you need to be in melee range of a hero. To be in melee range of a hero, you need to land Q. However, if you're not in melee range of a hero, only a stunned player is going to get hit by Q.
^ Q does 280, not 250, which when rounded is closer to 300. It also includes a 2 second stun, 1.5 of which affects a generous 250 area. The second activation gives more ult charges depending on how many targets are hit.
Because of his nature as a powerful tank, necessity to draw fire, and unreliable but powerful stun, I speculate he would do well with a blink dagger, for the ability to jump in and stun multiple targets for 1.5 seconds and deliver the burst of damage.
He's very item dependent because he gains no survivability through his abilities. His farming potential is, also, complete garbage. So yeah, you can rush a blink dagger, but you're going to be so squishy that you're going to get nuked down in 2-3 seconds after you go in. Why pick him over pebbles, behemoth, magmus, or legionaire, who are all much more useful with a blink dagger?
Half of the damage isn't in an AoE. 140 AoE damage is absolutely pitiful compared to what other heroes can do. Sure, he can hit W and start attacking, but he's going to get stunned and nuked down because, once again, his farming potential is garbage compared to other heroes.
I have had games where I've absolutely destroyed mid / sidelane with him (he's actually GREAT against blinkers, since you can delay Q until after they blink). After the laning phase, though, he simply gets destroyed in teamfights because he has zero survivability, and not enough farming power to farm decent items. He simply doesn't have any strengths, but he has plenty of weaknesses. Compare to pebbles. Pebbles has 1000 single target burst on a short cooldown. This guy has 530 (magic damage), but it takes 2-3 seconds because he has to attack just to get his burst off.
That's ultimately the difference between this hero and many others. Much like pandamonium, he needs a lot of time to use his abilitys, he can't simply blink in, Q+W for 1k damage. He needs survivability too. However, he doesn't have the late game scaling that pandamonium has or the single target lockdown, which are two of the major reasons to pick panda up. So what does this hero have? He doesn't have good AoE damage. He has bad mobility. His single target damage is "mediocre" at best, at least until you manage to get 120 charges, and his AoE is simply nonexistent (compare him to other strength heroes). If you're LUCKY you might do 390 damage to 2-3 heroes. That is completely paltry. I won't compare him to rampage because rampage is far better in a lane and has 6-8 seconds of PHYSICAL lockdown.
So what does this hero have? I honestly don't see any area where he shines. The only thing he does that's useful is countering blinkers. That's only if he can land Q, though. His survivability, mobility, single target damage, AoE damage, control, pushing, and farming are all mediocre or worse. He is a hero without a strong point, which is OK, well rounded heroes are fine. However, he's less than mediocre in too many areas to be picked over other strength carries / gankers.
They should just rework Ravenors third spell to make it proc like legonaires whirling blades based on some percentage .
Let's do some theorycraft.
Q gives an estimated 3 full instances of magic damage (1 for first activation, 2 for second)
W gives an estimated 3 full instances of magic damage (5 bounces total, 2 rounded off against creeps or dead procs)
E gives 2 full instances of magic damage every 1 second (3 targets hit every .9 seconds max, 1 rounded off for creep or dead proc, .1 second added)
2 auto attacks give 2 full instances of magic damage.
R gains, per "full instance of magic damage," 4/6/8 magic damage per attack and movespeed. So, using this low/median average anticipated charges gained, Ravenor can have 40/60/80 movespeed and magic damage after blinking in, issuing 2 attacks, and getting 1 proc off of feedback. It of course only goes up from this point on, with more auto attacks and feedback procs. This is without the assumption of a blink dagger.
This is my estimate as to the effectiveness of his ult and skills in a teamfight situation. 80 magic damage and movespeed is a whole lot to have going in to a fight - compare to Sassy's 60, Mali's 40, Embee's 38, Silly's 60, Swaith's 45. Don't forget that after a second or two that becomes 120. Those are impressive numbers.
I believe Ravenor is best built stacking strength, armor, and magic armor depending on the enemy team with items like power supply, bracers, vestments, grave locket/bloodstone and power treads/plated greaves. This is because a lot of his damage is delivered in a quick burst, so sustained damage items do not work as well with him as they would on a hard carry. Secondly, he is able to deal quite a bit of damage simply from being attacked, thus drawing fire from your allies which may potentially include greater damage dealers. He benefits from being in the middle of a fight for this reason. Like any good tank he forces the enemy into making the quick decision to use all of their damage to kill you, damaging themselves in the process, or allow you to live and build charges on your ult, causing you to deal immense magic damage over time.
His synergy with charged hammer is incredible - each bounce of chain lightning (3 every 5 attacks) and each hit by feedback (3 every 5 attacks) will add more charges to his ult, giving him even more damage faster. The area damage he is able to deal with charged hammer and the rest of his buffs, whether attacking or being attacked, is incredible enough that building him early on for survivability and initiation is an affordable luxury.
I speculate that Ravenor is a bottom borderline hero, or barely strong enough to be considered in the middle tier.
I think his damage output is fine. Just needs to pound on his enemies until it stacks up.
Someone also said get a nullstone, aabyssal, and a harkons? Not sure how would that work out though. I'd imagine it could be really deadly if you have your enemies under a keeper/tempest/behemoth/w/e ult? Dunno. I only played this hero 2 times, and I think he seems fine. Not OP, not underpowered.
BKB might be a good situational pickup, depends on how much magic damage they have - you usually want them to expend their disables and always want them to attack you. BKB should really only be used if there is not another damage dealer on your team (not ideal), or to increase the ratio of attacks/spells used against you for more feedback damage. The latter situation involves walking a very thin line, however, and is usually not a good idea. It's safer to build raw survivability and just try to draw fire away from the rest of your team.
Harkon's probably doesn't increase your damage as much as ch would, unless they just have really high armor and/or magic armor. Some math is needed. Nullstone is acceptable as a luxury, and since it increases the attacks/spells ratio for you while also giving a bit of hp it might be a good idea. Problem would be fitting it into a build. Abyssal is always a good item because it gives an armor, damage, and lifesteal aura.
I'm not gonna say a lot. Just one thing - This hero could be good with tweaks, Q is only good when your enemy is at 100range away from you.