5x5 Noobs only.. s2 consider

[riffraff666]

Just installed the game beta code from a friend. WC III was an awesome game, I've never played the DotA mod but oh well I've seen streams of this on justin and it looked like something I would get into.

After creating my account, I'm tempted to do the pre-order, but decide to wait and see if there are any technical problems or other reasons I may not want to buy it. I look for a manual online and in the game directory without success. I decide to just play a game.

The slots fill up and people start choosing their Heroes. I browse the heroes to choose from and decide to pick a warrior type guy, Jeraziah. Immediately ppl are crying about my choice. Something like we already have enough strength? I have no idea really. I can't find any way to change my hero in any case.

20 seconds into the game I'm getting complaints "pink doesn't know what he's doing..." .. um, yeah? It's my first game ever of course I have no idea what I'm doing. I try and quickly pick it up, heading out from town to kill some creeps. 5 times someone opens a vote to kick me out that fails. Dude named Chuck Wagon asks for me to leave.. but I don't want that, it's a stain on your record right? I see this "Leaver Protection" mentioned all over the place, and 1 game, 1 leave would not be a very good start. It's not until the enemy is knocking down structures in our base before the vote to concede is passed.

In any case it's just a bad experience for all. I don't see any AI to play against to try to get better. I don't see any documentation. I certainly don't see any games to join when the "noobs only" ones are full of elitists who want to kick you in the first 20 seconds. What is a new player to do in this?

Right now the chances of me pre-ordering have gone from about 90% to about 5% based on the in-game experience. If your goal is to just try and get the DotA players to buy your game then that seems fine, you'll succeed. But if you want to get others into the game, I don't really see how that's going to work with the current situation.

And now reading on the forums, apparently you get a "leave count" as well if you get kicked? I can understand not wanting to have players in your game that are purposely trying to ruin it for you, but to brand noobs as leavers doesn't seem right at all.

Anyways, rant over. Hopefully I'll get one of my friends to teach me what to do in this game and I'll be back for more. I still want to give it a chance. With the current climate of the game, however, you probably won't get a lot of new players to pick this up.

[[Sav2]stony]

I can only agree to your statement. As beeing a huge savage2- and s2games-fan i decided to try this new development of them. I chose the scout (which I am familiar with from S2 ) but like you i failed to do that, what the team thought i would have to do.

Always ppl complain about the learning curve of "Savage2 - A tortured soul" beeing very steep - in comparison to DoTa/HoN it's as plane as it can be.

(Sidenote - if you want to get into an awesome game faster than you will with HoN - try Savage2 )

S2games - If you want new players to join the game you will have to think about a very detailed tutorial...

[Ticcie]

The whole "Noobs only" server thing is not really working out as intended indeed. The general response to this seems to be that it will get better when there is automated match making, and of course 'this is beta'.

But the fact that after I send out beta invites I follow up with a 3 page long mail containing links to various introductions/guides/etc. which need to be read before your first game because otherwise you'll find the community quite... ehhmmm.. vocal about your skills is a good indication that the steep learning curve is a bit of a problem. Forget playing this game casually, HoN is a way of life.

But yeah, I wonder why self-proclaimed 'pro' players hang around in noobs only games. You'd think the name would imply something, but apparently you don't need to be able to read to whine about other people's skill.

[liq3]

The game has an extremely steep learning curve, and it's full of idiots. This results in a community that basically rips to shreads anyone who can't play well.

If you wanna give the game a chance, you're gonna have to accept 2 things.
1. You're going to get yelled at, a lot. Ignore it. Nothing else to do about it.
2. You're going to suck, and lose a lot, for a long time. Part of the whole "steep learning curve" thing.

If you can't handle a vicious community and extremely steep learning curve, then yes, you should probably find an easier game. I hear "Hello Kitty Online" is rather friendly and easy to play.

The documentation is in the glorious forums hallowed out by veteran players who know that the best way to defeat noobs is to make them better.

The learning curve is steep. Try to understand that this game is hard to have fun at all when playing with people who don't know what they're doing.

[riffraff666]

I don't really care about being yelled at or taking a lot of losses while getting my feet wet. There doesn't seem to be any other option other than to play (poorly) to get better.

The biggest problem I can see right now is that new players are going to be branded as "leavers" as the better players kick them from the game and will eventually not be able to enter any game, thru no fault of their own.

Seems like a shortsighted system.

If you can't handle a vicious community and extremely steep learning curve, then yes, you should probably find an easier game. I hear "Hello Kitty Online" is rather friendly and easy to play.

Nice, I may try that. I didn't know S2 support was promoting HKO

[cabboose]

if ur a "new player" and u want experience without getting gang banged, go with frends who will back u up. Frends can even host and that way they cant kick u out. And anyway who seems to good can be kicked from the lobby to give u a better chance to play with ppl ur level

PM me anytime ingame and ill come and play with u giving u sum useful hints. If u want that is :3

steep learning curve, TOTALLY WORTH IT. When i started it was bad yes, but after playing some games and ignoring wat ppl were saying to me i got the hang of it.

[kuru1]

Play some No Stats games. I played a couple for fun, but it turns out No Stats is pretty much code for "REALLY Noobs Only." Noobs Only games will still have veterans in them to farm stats; however, they'll avoid No Stats games since it doesn't do crap for them, so it's generally filled with new players getting a feel for the game.

[Fluffeh]

Yeah really. And if you ask on the forums its not has if someone wont show you the basics- the better part of the community lives here.

[[HRX]Coolica]

Play some No Stats games. I played a couple for fun, but it turns out No Stats is pretty much code for "REALLY Noobs Only." Noobs Only games will still have veterans in them to farm stats; however, they'll avoid No Stats games since it doesn't do crap for them, so it's generally filled with new players getting a feel for the game.

This... this makes perfect sense to me.

[Mousie1]

The whole "Noobs only" server thing is not really working out as intended indeed.

ive wondered about that myself
I see the noob only icon next to games all the time but anyone is free to join ?
so really whats its purpose but to be a little green icon that noone seems to care about ?

It should inforce some kind of limit to people who afre trying to join

[Konsume]

God I know what you feel.

I started at 1500 I went verry verry low in the 1200ish and got back to play in the ~1600.

You know what? I found that most players that are yelling, complaining about the skills of their team mates and vote kicking and such are the one that would actuly needs help.

HoN/DotA is an EGO game. Who has the biggest penis. Who makes more money... who has the pretiest girlfriend. Well we all know it's me but.... HEHEH!

Anyways keep playing, read as many guides as you can (there is a premium section) and learn any "intel ranged heroes" 1st.

[jar]

since you guys are new (understandable) or don't read the forums (not really understandable if you're complaining) there will be a matchmaking system added soon. Noobs will be paired using this with other noobs, and the pub stomper nerd ragers who join noobs only and berate people won't be in those games.


Also, you have to realize the purpose of beta testing is not to make everyone happy. Yes, you're new. Yes you have no idea how this game works. *But* S2 is mostly concerned with getting their game engine running smoothly and their server/matchmaking interface up to release standards. As harsh as it might sound, they aren't hosting these servers and giving out free accounts so that they can cater to every person. Yes that sounds harsh, but at least in my eyes that's how I see a semi-opened beta.

Also if this were a new concept of game that no one had played before, I could see a tutorial. *But* being a Dota based game with huge amounts of similarities to Dota, I'm sure they thought that a tutorial would be a waste of time for the beta client. Still possible one might be added for release.


I say that never having played DotA myself. I made the same mistake you made and joined a game with my 2 of my friends the first game. Yes I got raged on in chat. But instead of quitting, I kept playing and ignoring the retards because I don't have thin skin and someone on the internet will never ever hurt my feelings. I also played a LOT of practice games. This is a very helpful thing to do, it teaches you whats going on in the game and lets you test items and lets you practice last hitting. I suggest finding a hero you really enjoy playing (int or str hero not agi) and learn how to last hit creeps in practice mode. You can use the test function to spawn dummy heroes and test your abilities on them.

I also suggest reading guides. All of them you can. Especially the basic gameplay and laning and similar newbie guides. Coming from no dota experience this is what helped me the most in going from a 1300 player to a 1650 player. Once you learn the basics of the game and start to not get stomped and raged on every game, it really becomes fun and quite addicting.


Hope you stick with it.



EDIT:

Nice, I may try that. I didn't know S2 support was promoting HKO

You are mistaken thinking the shield under that guys name that says "Support S2 Games" means he works as an S2 support staff. The shield only means he pre-purchased the game. However, he is correct. People will rage on you even when you aren't a newb. If you are thin skinned and your feelings get hurt a lot. You probably won't enjoy this game. But if you understand that the internet is full of douchebags and use the "ignore" and "banlist" functions that are in the game, you will be fine.

[[LC]Damage]

There are a lot of ragers in this game mostly due to the aspect of it being longer rounds (30-50 minutes) and individual liability is higher then most other games.

The best advice I can give is to ignore the ragers, take advice (even if it's giving in a hostile manor) and befriend the nicer people to reduce the amount of a-holes in the game.

There is a huge learning curve, but once you get past the first bump most of the rage goes away. It's a fun game but I would not recommend it to sensitive people simply for the competitive nature of the players.

[Servitor]

Kuru totally stole the tread again. This is the second time I have seen him post absolute truth! READ HIS WORDS, READ HIS WORDS!

[Cyra]

It also helps a lot to go through every hero on practice mode. It'll give you a rough idea of each hero so you don't go 'WTF' when you just got wiped out by a Moon Queen cause there were no random creeps around. (though the chances are your team will do that for you)

And yeah, no stats is probably the best place for a real newbie to start, though when I joined I just stuck to practice mode and reading guides for the first 5-7 hours after being roflstomped in my first game. I'd say I do quite well for never having played DotA but getting to 1650 after 50 games. I've also hung around 1.5-2 KD ratio quite a bit though lately I prefer picking the support heroes. (and Nymphora isn't really doing much good for my assist ratio either I'd complain about how giving mana back to your carrier so he can finish off the hero, or stunning the target without dealing dmg doesn't count as an assist, but really less assists to Nymph = more gold to carrier = profit overall... :P)

[kuru1]

I basically just played DotA AI games for a week. I played Razor (Corrupted Disciple) exclusively as he was very simple (although this was old Razor, the new one's a wee bit more complicated). I then moved onto public games with friends carrying me (it helps a lot, they give advice instead of flaming, you can ask them builds/items in the middle of a game, etc). Progressed to playing Lich (Plague Rider) since I decided Razor was pretty weak in terms of overall game impact. From then on, it just blossomed.

[[ERDL]SplatterJohn]

i really don't think that most people would like to read a manual that long :P . ( manuals sucks.. so boring ..).
If your starting this game on your own you're going to have a hard time learning it . not much you can do about it right now.
p.s. it's still beta they're prob gonna implement some in game tutorial or video idk ?

[DenyTheTruth]

I want to make it clear that these issues are exactly why the Training Grounds exists. Find people to play with and/or play practice mode until you understand your heroes.

Also, the most important rule in this game is don't die. If you can manage that, everything else will come in time.

[Rasta]

Pub games are toxic man. Thats the problem with this game, it's not an rpg, so you think you can just pick up a game and play, but you need a team or a clan if you want a real game. Pubs are just toxic, and its mostly due to the pub community:

1. Pub games are never shuffle teams, which leads to 3-5 people being locked on 1 team and using teamwork to own the clueless newbies on the other team.
2. 75%+ pub games are -em.
3. 'Noob only' is just there to sucker bad players so the pubstompers can farm stats.
4. 80% of pub players are experienced at farming newbies but still terribad, so you can never tell with their stats.
5. Pubs dont know what support is, they only know boots first+autoattack.

In general you cant pick the game up. To make pub games playable to new players, there needs to be a better way to screen the actual newbies and the scrubs into different games. Maybe like, -em games dont record stats anymore, or psr limit on your games. In general just host your own games and boot anyone over 0.5 kdr if your new, thats all you can do for now, your not gonna learn to play in pub -em, youll probably just pick up bad habits and get worse.

The training ground thing is pretty sick, maybe check that out.


Also, the most important rule in this game is don't die. If you can manage that, everything else will come in time.[/QUOTE]

This isnt always necesarrily true. Yes you do not want to die to random ganks in laning phase, but at the same time you cant be always farming away from the fight just because your scared to die. Ill give you an example, you choose a good initator such as legionaire or kraken, and you have shamans headress. You initate a fight with blink/tsunami charge and your initating skill (taunt/whirlpool). Since your the first one in, the enemy team starts to focus you first and throws all your nukes at you, (which is good for you and bad for them if you got the right item build for the situation) And since you initiated properly, your team owns them, but you still die to those initial nukes. Typically you dont want to die, but in most team battle situations, if you are not the carry hero, if your death would be advantageous for your team then it is okay to die, as long as you dont die uselessly.
Now if your score is 0-17-0, (no assists), then thats what you should try not to do. But if you are 0-11-37 then its okay, as long as your not the carry and make use of your deaths.