What your not understanding is this isn't showing blizzard anything other than they have a portion of there players who are impatient, jump to conclusions, and choose to make worthless "D3 Sucks" threads. Like I said before, most the people are enjoying the game, the minority just happens to be the loudest.
@ KingSaber, What exactly makes Diablo 3 unpolished other than the fact that inferno is apparently "unplayable". I haven't encountered a single bug or game breaking experience and I would say I've progressed a lot. Seems pretty polished to me. I feel most people who are bashing D3 right now is because it simply isn't D2.
Also check out an awesome anime called Kaiji, its one of my top 10 animes and the art style is different and refreshing from typical animes.
zawa.... zawa.. zawa...
Last edited by Sky`; 06-09-2012 at 08:17 AM.
Don't get me started on Fate/Zero. I could write essays on how much I love it and hate it. Mostly because I am a huge fan of the novel and am always disappointed when something is adapted incorrectly.
Last edited by Emiya; 06-09-2012 at 08:26 AM.
I'll never forget what I felt that day...
I, want to be a Hero of Justice!
No, I'm trying to illustrate that the game is fine and just needs to be given a bit of time to fully mature. It is typically normal for massive online games to suffer some serious issues in the beginning. Its really not fair of the player base to expect the developers to catch every single problem with the game even if some are larger then others. Any problems that were absolutely game breaking were immediately hot-fixed to avoid further damage to the game (for example, boon of protection for monks allowed them to solo all of inferno with ease). The game was indeed rigorously tested and patched but some issues still reside and will be dealt with before the end of this month. The reason it takes a bit of time is because they don't want to release a patch without fully realizing its implications on the game. In other words, they don't want to fix one thing then break another thing, they have to take many things into considerations when balancing... Its not easy.
People can whine all they want, its nothing new anyways. Almost every time I get a large online game there are always people who are unhappy with it in one way or another. You simply cannot please everybody, I've read some people want inferno to be beatable in under a week, and others want it to last months. So who do you listen to? no one, you make the decision you feel will provide the most enjoyment to the players without completely alienating another player base. People seriously underestimate what it takes to make a game of this magnitude, just give it time and these kinks will be ironed out soon.
People like to band together and get mad at something, to the point some people do it without even experiencing it (hat_truck) this is known as a bandwagon and should be avoided.
I typically stay away from mangas because I enjoy watching more than I do reading. But occasionally if the cliffhanger is just too much, I might take a gander at the next manga chapter ;P
Not really sure how far fate/zero strayed of its course but I can tell you as someone who never read a word form the manga, I am really loving it.
Kaiji is supposedly an anime that followed the manga religiously and didn't stray of it even an iota. In fact I read the Kaiji manga, its literally exactly the same as the anime. CHECK IT OUT!!! I really liked it xD
Last edited by Sky`; 06-09-2012 at 08:52 AM.
No surprises here, but I completely agree with Sky :P
The playerbase asked for a harder difficulty than Hell that would take a long time to master, with much harder monsters. So they made Inferno. It's been pointed out that it takes "no skill" and that its "artificial difficulty". This is primarily true because the death penalty in the game isn't high enough, allowing people to death-zerg to push through content they aren't ready for, making the game into a super kite-fest.
Posting a video of a high-end demon hunter and saying "LOOK EVEN WITH THE BEST GEAR HE HAS TO KITE BRO" is stupid. He's a demon hunter. Of course he has to kite. You don't build survivability on demon hunters, and if you do you only get enough to take one hit so you die less often.
Inferno is being tweaked. At release it wasn't perfectly optimized, and you should be completely okay with that. It's a game that you paid a mere 60 bucks for. Inferno is certainly not "barely functional". It's a playable game mode that is nearly impossible to beat without fantastic gear. So chill. Play a hardcore character. Do something else til they release 1.1 and balance the characters.
Whether the demon hunter is a squishy class by nature it shouldn't be getting one shotted to the point where you have to smoke screen most of the damage. I guarantee that any demon hunter who has kill diablo has used smoke screen. This is an rpg an you should feel at the very least some character progression.
An tons of d2 players asking for a harder difficulty is a misconception. People may of complained in the beta while it was still on normal mode but that doesn't mean people wanted what inferno is now. Its not like blizzard has a gigantic poll to see if everybody wanted a higher difficulty. An you know what. If it was after release when people got to test the game out. I guarantee you that it would be a 1/10 vote to keep the game difficulty as it is now.
Blizz why you make me look like this
Watch with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIuotFZnBtk
Last edited by KingSaber; 06-09-2012 at 03:10 PM.
Saying inferno wasn't perfectly optimized on release is a huge understatement. It wasn't even tested. The last thing they did was double the numbers. Diablo 3 is a terrible overpriced game.
YAWN. Same old bad arguments.
Saber, don't be silly. Blizzard listened to the Diablo 2 community for YEARS, and what they couldn't or wouldn't fix in Diablo 2 they put into Diablo 3. People who were in lategame Diablo 2 felt let down because a level 90 with perfect items could blast through Baal with ease.
So what do we get? Inferno. A mode where no matter how perfect your gear is, you still need to be cautious and careful, which in turn increases the value of the gear you find there. Conceptually that is the point of Inferno.
Honestly though it makes sense that the end game would be the least optimized area of a game at release. You guys who are complaining that it wasn't ready for release are simply being ridiculous. Your expectations for a game like D3 are waaaay unrealistic.
I'm done having this conversation. I've given solid reasons why I think Diablo 3 is already a great game and it's going to get better. I've pointed out why your criticisms with the game are mostly invalid. We're just having the same conversation at this point.
Sky makes me feel validated. Sky sky sky sky sky....s ky... sky... k y jelly
I should point out that in this entire thread (or any other D3 thread), I haven't complained about the difficulty of Inferno once. To me, Inferno seems like the difficulty Blizzard put in to appease the whiners who thought Hell was too easy in Diablo 2. When Inferno is too hard, people cry because they want to be able to beat it. Now that's stupidity, but it's something that's been happening with Blizzard games since the beginning - starting with Heroic Mode in the WoW dungeons.No, I'm trying to illustrate that the game is fine and just needs to be given a bit of time to fully mature. It is typically normal for massive online games to suffer some serious issues in the beginning. Its really not fair of the player base to expect the developers to catch every single problem with the game even if some are larger then others. Any problems that were absolutely game breaking were immediately hot-fixed to avoid further damage to the game (for example, boon of protection for monks allowed them to solo all of inferno with ease). The game was indeed rigorously tested and patched but some issues still reside and will be dealt with before the end of this month. The reason it takes a bit of time is because they don't want to release a patch without fully realizing its implications on the game. In other words, they don't want to fix one thing then break another thing, they have to take many things into considerations when balancing... Its not easy.
I don't think that Inferno mode should just be another difficulty to beat, and if people are starting to hate the game once they get there, I might call those people pretty stupid. However, I will say that the archaic method of having to beat the game 2 or 3 times before it gets difficult is insanely dumb, and a horrible design decision. That may have worked in 2000, but there's really no excuse for that kind of grind-inducing philosophy anymore. The fact that you're expected to play through the game multiple times to increase the difficulty already lowers my score of the game by several points; it's a bad mechanic, and I'll bet you anything, implementing starter difficulty levels would have circumvented this whiny Inferno rant completely.
As illustrated before in this thread, your point is invalid. Of course there will be whiners with any game, but most older Blizzard games were extremely positively received (and rightly so) by their customers. The group of whiners were a minority. In Diablo 3, it's not just a small group of people, it's a huge portion of the playerbase. Anywhere there are customer reviews, the game is getting slammed and criticized even weeks after release.People can whine all they want, its nothing new anyways. Almost every time I get a large online game there are always people who are unhappy with it in one way or another. You simply cannot please everybody, I've read some people want inferno to be beatable in under a week, and others want it to last months. So who do you listen to? no one, you make the decision you feel will provide the most enjoyment to the players without completely alienating another player base. People seriously underestimate what it takes to make a game of this magnitude, just give it time and these kinks will be ironed out soon.
People like you (and a few others) want to write these people off as the minority, but they aren't. YOU'RE the minority. You're the one defending this game even when most rational people have already discarded it as a pathetic money-making scheme.
I don't have a problem with Diablo 3 because of its gameplay mechanics (even though I think they are really boring and watered down), I have a problem with it because of its design mechanics.
Apostate has said several times in this thread that Blizzard created the loot drops without the auction house in mind. I don't know how naive you could be. That would be like building a car without knowing whether it would use diesel or gas. How can you design the drops without factoring in the auction house? Even Blizzard isn't that stupid (and they're pretty stupid). If they made the drops too numerous and too good, it would have the opposite effect it that it has now, the AH would be flooded with good stuff, and people would complain that Inferno was too easy.
The Auction House is THE design decision that ruined the game. As I said in a previous post, the drops will never be as good as in Diablo 2, because drops of that rate and quality would ruin the entire auction house. The inefficiency and difficulty of trading items in D2 (as well as offline and LAN modes) were what allowed Blizzard to give such monumental drops without worrying about destroying the game's economy.
It is no surprise that all of the new ARPGs coming out soon won't HAVE an auction house, because it's a terrible idea.
Let's be honest, Blizzard tried to turn Diablo 3 into World of Warcraft - another cash cow (forced online play, no modding, lvl 60 cap, auction house, etc.) and it backfired in their face. And they deserved it.
Anybody with half a brain can see it for what it really is. Diablo 3, even with JUST the removal of the WoW mechanics would have been 10x better than it is. If you could play offline, mod the game, plan LAN, play to level 100, and with better drops because of no auction house, this game would be so much better and you can't deny it. Blizzard thought they were going to make more money by turning it into WoW, and they lost a huge amount of money instead.
I don't feel bad for them, I feel bad for the people hilariously defending it when it's clear what it is.
As I said before, if there was a Ford truck that was perfect in every way, but got 3 miles to the gallon, do I need to buy this before I complain about it? I certainly hope not. I hope the impact it would have on the economy and on our limited fuel source is reason enough to complain.People like to band together and get mad at something, to the point some people do it without even experiencing it (hat_truck) this is known as a bandwagon and should be avoided.
I really did not want to respond to this because I feel this thread had pretty much reached its end point but since you put so much effort into your response I feel inclined to at least say something. Don't expect me to respond to every point though, as most of the points you've made I have addressed already and I don't want to repeat my self, if you'd like you can go back and read through my posts.
If you do not like D3 because it is following the same design principles as D2 then fine, that is totally legitimate. But to flaunt your dislike to everybody just puts you in the same category of whiners, except as one who hasn't even played the game.
Apostate is simply wrong, they did create loot with the Auction House in mind. The problem right now is they feel the loot system needs to be tweaked a bit before they launch the RMAH. The auction house facilitates a superior form of trade between players that reduces griefing to zero and delivers more efficiently, this alone is enough to warrant the auction house's existence in a loot-based game of 2012. Your argument regarding drops really does not make sense considering the best items have not really even dropped yet and when they do they will be in such shortage they will either be priced really high or simply used by the player.
Just so you know the RMAH technically existed in D2 and eventually became the way that most people became farmed. You think everyone farmed all of those enigmas? hahaha no. Websites ran a shitload of bots at a time to farm for gear then sold them for a low price, enigma was suppose to be a super rare item not many people had. The best gear in D3 drops in inferno... GL botting that.
all your other points are really speculative, and don't really need a response, if your so dedicated to hating the game why should I bother trying to convince you otherwise, its a fruitless attempt that will simply waste my time.
Jay Wilson specifically stated, as did several other designers, that the game was designed without the auction house. All the playtesters didn't use the auction house at all, the designers played through the full game without using it, etc. The auction house was a late development that wasn't factored. According to them.
I'm disinclined to believe that the devs were lying. They are representatives from a company, but they are also individual people with principles. I have respect for them for the projects they have done in the past.
I think Hat_Truck raises a fair point. D3 has gotten probably the worst rap of any blizzard game ever. I think this is mainly because of the poorly optimized end game, the giant hype around this game, and the fact that the auction house has been enabling people to skip content and play incorrectly. There's also the fact that the death penalty is too low, which has made a lot of people progress by "death zerging", a strategy that is boring and which the designers didn't intend to be viable. D3 has had quite a rough start in many aspects. I still love it though, and I'm still having fun. I can't wait until everything's been tweaked and things get really interesting.
I wouldn't even mind a rollback to repair the messed up economy caused by all the gold-farmers, exploiters, etc.
Ha, as if the only solution to griefing and delivery problems is the auction house.The auction house facilitates a superior form of trade between players that reduces griefing to zero and delivers more efficiently, this alone is enough to warrant the auction house's existence in a loot-based game of 2012
This single sentence seems to be your only defense of it, and I'm apparently supposed to take it at face value. Well, I don't.
Diablo 2 was never about doing things efficiently, no ARPG was. Let's be honest, it's a grind. The point isn't to win, the point is the grind. It's about the slot machine. It's about getting a feeling of accomplishment while you crush wave after wave of bad guys.
With the auction house, Blizzard, and you, have misunderstood what a good ARPG is all about. Trading is good yes, and fun to do, but it's not the core element of the game. Unfortunately, the drops will always live in the shadow of the auction house, so whether directly or not, trading has become the core element.
You write me off as an ignorant complainer, but you don't seem to realize that I'm not complaining about some minor, irrelevant detail of the game, I'm focusing on the core failure itself.
Forced online and no LAN/moddability are also major complaints, because I'm sure if it could be modified, somebody would have made a much better game by now.
Once again, you act as if the complainers are in the minority, but actually the apologists are in the minority. You also act like every Blizzard game is received like this initially, and it's just not true. The quality of Blizzard games has been dropping steadily since the Activision merge, and there's no denying it.
Diablo 3 could, at some point in the future, become a good game. It would require a massive rehaul of current game mechanics, but I don't deny the possibility. However, getting there will require eliminating what made it so awful to begin with - namely Blizzard's greed.
I can't imagine how inconvenient it would be if I was forced to stop playing to find a seller for all of my items. I'd have to use mules to carry all the sellable items, I'd have to upgrade my stash to full immediately, and do all of that stuff that people in D2 have had to do.
If there was no auction house at all, what would probably happen is that people would only make an effort to sell truly top notch items, and the rest of their items would be salvaged/vendored. Gold and bad loot would only be tools used to use the blacksmith to find better loot. I think that results in somewhat flawed gameplay.
I have big issues with how the auction house disrupts progression, but I don't have a viable solution to the problem either.
I personally like the way difficulty works in D3, D2, and D1. How exactly does it work in Torchlight? Do the drops just scale with your level no matter where you are, and then the difficulty is a totally unrelated setting to your loot? I like that in Diablo games you are forced into the most difficult content to find the best loot, or even usable loot at all. The whole idea is that you try to become geared enough so that it becomes easy again.
The whole ARPG genre is sort of a weird and flawed beast, but I love it all the same.