Thread: Is having a limited hero pool really making HoN money.

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  1. #1
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    Is having a limited hero pool really making HoN money.

    So DOTA2 decided to go the cosmetic only route with all heroes unlocked in a f2p model.
    HoN has been out quite some while now and there's more than enough cosmetic skins and models available, why does it still need a limited hero pool, do people really spend that much cash to unlock heroes?
    Also early access, do people really pay for the "early access" part or are they more interested in the limited edition skin of that hero?

    Is the amount of players lost because of a limited hero pool really worth the money it's making, or would HoN make more money out of those players who doesn't play because of the limited hero pool.
    Last edited by Techies; 06-01-2012 at 09:43 PM.
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  2. #2
    well hon does give silver per game so it does eventually make up for the heroes you have to buy i dont think dota gives you anything.

  3. #3
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    So? That doesn't mean much when every new hero costs 850 silver. At 8.5 silver average, it takes 100 matches to earn 1 hero. I average about 11 a match, so if I were to have to buy all the new heroes, I would still be stuck on Draconis.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG-g3t97g-g&feature=BFa
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    It's a fairly standard f2p model, except you would normally have a static pool of heroes that would change once every 3 months. This model is a proven money maker, but not always a profit maker. What's more likely to get you to spend money on, that hero that looks fun and you like playing, or a hat for that hero you play? Valve is a bigger company, so they can be a little risky with there model. Give it a year and see how things are going.

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    They can be risky with their model, but it's also possible for S2 to be. Several popular youtubers have expressed interest in HoN, and if S2 paid them and fixed their model, they could make lodsa emone. Think about it: YOGScast announce S2 revoking the F2P P2W bullshit, thousands of new comers flock to HoN, get addicted to the game, and end up paying for avatars. S2 can compensate by giving everyone who bought a hero that hero's cheapest accompanying avatar that they do not own, that way those that came in for F2P don't get screwed. Sxephil, one of the youtube Juggernauts loves YOGScast, and if you can reach him through the YOGScast, then you would attract MILLIONS of players.

    There are really easy ways for S2 to fix this ****. 4chan has expressed several times that HoN is the better game, but is held back by the F2P system. While yes, it is hard to please a lot of people, /v/ has more power to make or break a game than the company does. Look what they did to SWTOR. Look what they did for Tribes:Ascend. All that people ask for is that the game is good, and this F2P model is holding it back greatly.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG-g3t97g-g&feature=BFa
    This is how ALL ARTS devs balance their games.

    And THIS is how you shut down Pimp Slayer
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFOH8KrR1xY

  6. #6
    It gives you items for free sometimes...i got a courier yesterday.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by skeloperch View Post
    They can be risky with their model, but it's also possible for S2 to be. Several popular youtubers have expressed interest in HoN, and if S2 paid them and fixed their model, they could make lodsa emone. Think about it: YOGScast announce S2 revoking the F2P P2W bullshit, thousands of new comers flock to HoN, get addicted to the game, and end up paying for avatars. S2 can compensate by giving everyone who bought a hero that hero's cheapest accompanying avatar that they do not own, that way those that came in for F2P don't get screwed. Sxephil, one of the youtube Juggernauts loves YOGScast, and if you can reach him through the YOGScast, then you would attract MILLIONS of players.

    There are really easy ways for S2 to fix this ****. 4chan has expressed several times that HoN is the better game, but is held back by the F2P system. While yes, it is hard to please a lot of people, /v/ has more power to make or break a game than the company does. Look what they did to SWTOR. Look what they did for Tribes:Ascend. All that people ask for is that the game is good, and this F2P model is holding it back greatly.
    I browse VG and v and thats not so true, while they think Hon was a good game at the beginning, they think S2 went full jew... and a lot of things.

  8. #8
    Where there is a will, there is a way.

    Although S2's policies disallow the selling of accounts but there are plenty of people out there selling legacy accounts.
    Now, unless you DON'T want to spend 20-30$ on a game, you can get a legacy account easy.

    If you don't wanna spend money, then I don't think you have any right to be demanding anything here.
    Also, 10$ for the entire pool last Christmas. They might do the same again this year.

  9. #9
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    I dont think S2 are getting the point how to earn money.

    >Make cool stuff like avatars, taunts, announcers, etc. and you will have your money. Just be sure they are nicely done.

    >Lock the competitive and the other mods, lock the heroes, make crappy models for original and nice model for alt avatars and you will earn only hate.


    I dont mind locking the heroes that much, but they are overpriced too. 100 games for 1 hero is a little too much.
    Last edited by Syzymy; 06-02-2012 at 12:28 AM.

  10. #10
    lol i remember back in the day when the first alts just came out, as my memory recalls s2 said something like this "an alt avatar will never cost more than 99 games worth of playing to buy" ofc this was back in that day when pimpslayer was the most expensive alt out

    now my memory isn't perfect, i may or may not be wrong but that is something i think i remember reading(feel free to correct me if im wrong)


  11. #11
    Valve designed their game from the ground up to work with interchangeable overpriced cosmetic features that a flock of fanboys will be eager to purchase. S2 offered a premium value for the game originally and had to adapt their business model seeing as how they had no other substantial games to generate much revenue from and a one time purchase couldn't sustain the game with how much work they were putting into it. I think we will have to wait and see how much work Valve puts into Dota 2 post-release. Then again, I'm sure people would find a reason to praise them for not offering consistent updates.
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    Quote Originally Posted by foul_beast View Post
    lol i remember back in the day when the first alts just came out, as my memory recalls s2 said something like this "an alt avatar will never cost more than 99 games worth of playing to buy" ofc this was back in that day when pimpslayer was the most expensive alt out

    now my memory isn't perfect, i may or may not be wrong but that is something i think i remember reading(feel free to correct me if im wrong)


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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by EchoX View Post
    well hon does give silver per game so it does eventually make up for the heroes you have to buy i dont think dota gives you anything.
    You get random cosmetic items for free when you play games of Dota.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Reldnahc View Post
    Valve designed their game from the ground up to work with interchangeable overpriced cosmetic features that a flock of fanboys will be eager to purchase. S2 offered a premium value for the game originally and had to adapt their business model seeing as how they had no other substantial games to generate much revenue from and a one time purchase couldn't sustain the game with how much work they were putting into it. I think we will have to wait and see how much work Valve puts into Dota 2 post-release. Then again, I'm sure people would find a reason to praise them for not offering consistent updates.
    A lot of the item sets in Dota 2 are actually fairly cheap. $5 or less for quite a few of the bundles.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bangatron View Post
    It's a fairly standard f2p model, except you would normally have a static pool of heroes that would change once every 3 months. This model is a proven money maker, but not always a profit maker. What's more likely to get you to spend money on, that hero that looks fun and you like playing, or a hat for that hero you play? Valve is a bigger company, so they can be a little risky with there model. Give it a year and see how things are going.
    Maybe the perceived standard f2p model for moba(accuse my french) isn't the best. I mean has the cosmetic only f2p model actually been ever done to a game that actually mattered, which people have been playing for years where people know the name of almost each character?
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by xEidolon View Post
    A lot of the item sets in Dota 2 are actually fairly cheap. $5 or less for quite a few of the bundles.
    And I belive I've seen that some of the weapons you can buy/find are not restricted to a single hero but can be applied to any.
    Also read somewhere that it will be possible to excharge old items you already own for other things once you have grown tired of them. Probably need to have the same value or higher value than the item you wich to trade it for, unless you can trade them in for some sort of ingame currency. Or perhaps complement an item worth lets say $5 and with $2 to get an item worth $7.

    But on topic:
    Yes it does make money for HoN, but wether or not they could get more money and a larger/happier playerbase is another question.
    Last edited by Millikin; 06-02-2012 at 07:27 AM.

  17. #17
    The whole industry is turning towards player's retribution, Diablo III action house, dota 2 now will apparently reward modellers for their work, these companies are taking the middleman role which in every aspect of bussiness has always been the most profitable role, understanding profits as earnings-costs, and adding work hours/stress to costs in that equation.

    Not only the gaming industry is doing this, everyone is looking at methods to make money with an initial work investment and little manteinance, I've recently worked for some company that has created a system for an online restaurant management with monthly payment, they have already 200+ restaurants paying them 50$ monthly to use that tool, a tool that requires almost no manteinance at all, they are 2 guys earning 5k$ monthly each without needing to put more than 6 hours/week, and chances are they'll soon double that income, tell me that's not brilliant.

    Ask yourself, who is richer, who works harder, the guy manufacturing shoes or the one with a multinational shoe selling company?

    This post in regards to S2's "improving the F2P model" represents exactly my thoughts, a post that was made some months ago, before it was confirmed that Dota 2 was true f2p:

    You currently have 2 schemes of monetizing the game, one for F2P players and another for legacy.

    Currently, the F2P scheme has an excessive ammount of things to buy: Alt avatars, heroes, Early access, cosmetics and tokens. Now, without the numbers it would be hard to tell, but isn't there an overlap in the offer?

    Do players who are forced to buy heroes buy, let's say, green names? Alt avatars?

    Now, this could be looked at in 3 ways:

    1.- They buy green names, alt avatars, heroes, and anything you pump out, so the more you offer, the more you sell.
    2.- They don't buy green names, but they still spend the 30$ they were planning to spend.
    3- They don't buy green names, they spend 30$, but they are less likely to spend 60$ because they aren't engaged enough in the game.

    When I say green names, I refer to it as an example of things people dont purchase because they've already spent the money they planned to spend.

    The number 1 doesn't look really likely to me from any psychological point of view, the number 2 is probably too straight forward and maybe isn't looking at the whole picture, the number 3 would require a study, but it would appear as psychologically viable wouldn't it?
    Now, let's add another factor into consideration, this overlap is not only an indirect one, it has also direct results, the most obvious one being the fact that you're creating a product a big part of your playerbase doesn't have access to: Alt avatars. You are releasing chainsaw moraxus, but out of the 90k people playing, only 30k have moraxus, therefore you are creating a product with a target audience that is 66% smaller than it could be.

    We could also talk about engagement, or investment levels and how it affects in this case, but it's a long talk, basically, if you had 149 pokemons, you'd be more likely to buy the 150 than if you were to buy your 61st, it's studied in marketing, and I oversimplified it, but I think I made it easy to understand. This translates in people buying EA heroes because it's the only hero they're missing, and not being so akin to buying normal heroes because they are missing a lot anyway.

    Also, why not mention it, Dota 2 is going to be your competitor, and so far everything points out they won't limit the ammount of heroes for F2P players, how are you going to justify, then, that you offer 30 heroes while Dota 2 offers every hero for free? Are you going to adapt post facto? Probably not the best idea to do it then, and not now.

    With those factors in mind, and with the fact that the current F2P scheme slows down the competitive side of this game, and the variation in gameplay for new players, I don't think this method will be good enough.

    As you can see, I'm not asking S2 to earn less for the player's convenience, in fact I think they'd earn much more.


    Hon has a map editor, it's just a matter of stepping up, letting players "work", and let them earn money for it, while S2 sits on their asses doing nothing seeing the money come. Selling game maps that players create while retributing and encouraging map makers would be a good start to replace the already outdated sell heroes scheme.
    Last edited by DerRape; 06-02-2012 at 02:55 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bangatron View Post
    It's a fairly standard f2p model, except you would normally have a static pool of heroes that would change once every 3 months. This model is a proven money maker, but not always a profit maker. What's more likely to get you to spend money on, that hero that looks fun and you like playing, or a hat for that hero you play? Valve is a bigger company, so they can be a little risky with there model. Give it a year and see how things are going.
    I'm fairly convinced that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

  19. #19
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    If you're not playing a legacy account it really just isn't HoN =)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by xEidolon View Post
    A lot of the item sets in Dota 2 are actually fairly cheap. $5 or less for quite a few of the bundles.
    Well the equip bundles are divided in some sections (i write the not reduced prices in ):
    Common -> 1,97
    Uncommon -> 2,56 - 4,16
    Rare -> 3,76 - 7,95
    Mythical -> 13,16
    Legendary -> (currently only Beta Invite/Access + Stuff=) 29,99

    The stuff until rare is pretty bad equal to the price. Stuff becomes really cool at "rare", but it's nothing yet to a completly redisigned avatar (Sven equip bundle for 7,95 is the closest one). The Axe mythical equip set looks pretty neat, but just look at the price.
    So you can't compare the cheapest bundles with the cheapest HoN avatars at all, and the most expensive ones are really expensive and in most cases (there are only a few yet) not as great as a complete avatar.

    I hope nevertheless, that S2 will take a similiar route: When Valve offers a complete hero pool, S2 mostlikely needs to take action as well, though EA heroes can still be part of the game.
    Last edited by Baer; 06-02-2012 at 04:46 PM.
    oi

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