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so why bloddstone is popular in dota,but why isn't sacrificial stone good here in hon?
Stat comparison:
Bloodstone Sacrifical Stone
Cost: 5050 5050
HP: 500 450
Mana: 400 400
Hp/s: 9 6
Mana/s: 200% 150%
Damage: 0 10
Charges 6 0
Effect: Bloodpact SacStone effect
Bloodstone pros:
50 health,
3hp/s
50% manaregen
6 charges.
Sac Stone:
10 damage.
=============
Now the effect:
Bloodstone Sacrifical Stone
Charge Radius 1675 1000
Mana/s per Charge 1 1
Less gold loss on death 25 25
Respawn timer: -4 seconds -3
Heal: 400 + 30*charges 400 + 25*charges
Charge loss on death 1/3th 1/2th
Experience range: 1000 Couldnt find so fast :P
Vision range: 1800 Couldnt find so fast :P
Still:
Sac stone is WAAAAAAY worse then Bloodstone.
The most outstanding differences are: Respawn per charge, Charge loss per death and Charge radius.
TLDR: Sac stone is way worse then bloodstone.
And that my friends, is the reason Sac stone is trash compared to Bloodstone.
so mainly on defiler you should rush behe's heart?
Defiler can build different items as well.
I prefer a combination of Astorlabe, Shamans/Barrier, Grave Locket, Nomes Wisdom and as lux items like Frostfield for armor and mana. Behe after for ultimate tankyness.
hm,never thought of astrolabe for her.neither grave locket or nome.Isn't astro/nome more of a support item?Indeed she spams a lot of manaspells but yet again you never know.Power supply is a must.shouldn't she be midlane otherwise she is useless?
She needs the levels from mid, yes. She is a tanky carry, which means she is a semicarry.
Semicarry's can build carrylike without shieldbreaker or savage mace
Soulreaper is similar, a tanky hero that is build more tanky because of his damage over time.
Nomes and Astro will keep her and her team alive throughout the fight.
On defiler and tort you can get a HotBL and usually a RoS. You can split the helm later into Behemoth's Heart and Nullstone if you have the money, or, if you're poor as f*ck, then you can build a sac stone from splitting both since it's like a "poor man's behemoth's+null". There are obviously loads of other routes for these 2 heroes as they're rather versatile but this is a typical one.
so which is better?nome and astrolabe or the other classic route of hotbl,null/sacrif??
Depends on what you like
Astro nomes are cheaper items with easier buildups, and giving more utility for your team.
HotBL isnt that good on ranged heroes, nullstone is rather good, but Sac Stone is kinda bad on defiler.
Again, for the reasons mentioned above: Sac Stone is too expensive for what it gives.
I still like the Grave Locket, Nomes Wisdom, Astolabe, Barrier Idol, Frostfield Plate route.
Rather underrated items in my opinion they are cheap and have cheap buildups (Except for FFP).
Well saw sac stone on testie when he stomped mid with defiler and wanted to know if it was the only build.now i find that it is too expensive for what it gives.i will try that build next time.Is defiler good on lane?I find it impossible to get the farm she needs while laning since you will not be paired with a support there.
also if you watch this http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...-new-players!!
you might find from there that soulreaper is more of a support rather than a semi-carry.sow really even if he stays alive lategame and is able to deal tons of damage,how do you guys call him semi-carry?
Last edited by Clytemnestra; 06-21-2012 at 07:30 AM.
SR is a tanky DPS. I wouldn't call him a true carry just as you wouldn't call zephyr, armadon or Ra a true carry. He's like them in that the longer he stays alive, the more damage he puts out so you build him tanky.
in the top lane legion we got let's say pyro and behe.or pyro and hammer.Both of them,actually all 3 need a portal key.Who should take the farm considering that bot we got magebane/glacius and glacius is gonna harass/stack etc.,so mb takes all creeps?Should pyro get pkey asap and one-shot the enemy carry?should hammer/behe get his pkey and initiate teamfights?Also,where does glacius make all his money for boots/powersupply/wards?i find myself without money if i just buy wards so i can't even buy my boots.
I'd give the farm to pyro in that situation. Pyro scales with items better than Behe and Behe is also an excellent roamer. He should get most of his gold from assists/kills when roaming and needs only striders+RoS+PK to be effective throughout the game.Originally Posted by Clytemnestra
If it's pyro/hammer then it depends on roles. If MB is in the other lane then you're not going to be having HS play a melee carry role, and could potentially be played like Behe as a roaming support/ganker. Obviously this situation pretty much entirely depends on which role you choose for your heroes.
With a lane babysitting support, whenever your carry is not in the lane or isn't going to get a lasthit, you can take it. You also get a fair amount of gold from a kill/assist if mid ganks your lane. Not only that, but you can get the lasthits on neutrals when stacking and pulling. With glacius in particular you can pick up farm when going to ward by farming some neutrals. Glacius can actually (relatively slowly) farm ancients at level 1 so you can farm 1 or 2 every time you make a trip to ward.
Even hard supporting you should be able to get 150GPM so you'll get boots in 3 minutes or so (assuming they're your first item and you spent all your starting gold) and you should only need something like Steam Boots, Grave Locket, Power Supply, Vestments, TP and Wards which are all very cheap so you should be set for the game just gradually getting your bigger items and keeping wards up.
why shouldn't my carry be in the short lane if he must farm?obvious he might be jungling but not until lvl 6-7-8 when i should have boots already+wards.
i already get neuts when s&p but it is not enough.
minotaurs have 1k hp,farming them with glacius would take tons of time,in which i lose xp from the lane.Obvious the carry will get xp which i don't need,but i don't really like me being lvl2 while all my team is lvl 7 or so.not to mention an underleveled glacius with no boots can be very easy ganked and tower dived against.so i can't even get my ck.
uhm,how about astrolabe and nome's wisdom on torturer?since you make them on defiler who spams abilities and is a tanky semicarry like torturer?why aren't those 2 items good fot torturer?especially because he uses so much mana and thus healing himself with nome?(obvious tablet is core but what about these 2 items)
Last edited by Clytemnestra; 06-21-2012 at 11:50 AM.
I'll start out with disagreeing with Pyro getting the farm.
The core aspect of teamfights is the initiation.
When Behe blinks in and Ults it is just one chaos, which you want to have.
A PK pyro is not that effective at initiating, but a good follow up.
Glacius can freeze a creep in the jungle, it deals a lot of damage, and lasts way longer then on heroes.
On Torturer :Nomes Wisdom is a good item, But Astro is not.
Astro requires you to use mana, but Torturer needs his mana for his REALLY expensive ultimate.
On Torturer I go either PK or Tablet (Both VERY good for initiation, and Tablet is REALLY good as a survivability item, Movementspeed and blinks are good ways to increase your survivability, for example magebane.)
After that I tend to go Nomes Wisdom and then some situational items like Frostfield Plate, Shrunken Head, Sheepstick, Radiance, Behemoth's Heart or even a Hellflower. A Stormspirit, Barbed Armor and Nullstone are all good as well.
You want survivability and mana / manaregen on Torturer. Even a REALLY early Sacrificial Stone may work.
indeed behe needs pkey for teamfight initiation,but pyro with pkey and wards in their jungle can kill their farming carry.So it is either a teamfight or get their carry i guess.
made nome on torturer in practice and it doesn't work for his ult,but only for the initial manacost of his ult.(it doesn't work for the upkeep,just the initial cost).Not sure if intended or a bug.Can some1 tell me?
It is intended. It still is very good thanks to his other 3 skills costing a lot of mana.
too bad.still only his 3rd is spammable.
fun tip:try torturer in midwars
You can repeatedly trigger his ult for the heal. It will not trigger though for the duration, only the initial instance. That would be stupid OP.
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