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While Thunderbringer has been free to play now, my friends and I have picked him up again quite a bit after not touching him for a very long time. I like him because he's iconic and almost nostalgic. Classic glass cannon magical nuker.
However, the hero is trash. In my humble opinion. Unfortunately.
I feel he has a crippling almost-kill syndrome. He can do big damage (with level advantage, pre magic armor), but cannot finish the kill, which is so unfortunate.
His auto attack is one of this biggest problems. In lane as well as in team fights, he has practically no auto-attack. As easy as he is to gank, his short attack range (and slow attack point) largely keeps him out of range to attack creeps. This often largely limits his last hitting to chain lightning, which is strong for that purpose, and will harass well to boot. But it pushes the lane hard, crippling him because of his familiarity to death by stuns and slows.
Mid, which used to be his domain, is lost to much stronger heroes with better ganking, better rune control, and better lane control.
The hero is outdated. The little utility he has in his anti-invis features and ministun can no longer compare to the toolboxes of other heroes, and his magic damage is no longer extraordinary. His ult is still strong at times, but not enough imo.
Ellonia also contributed to me making this post. She feels sort of similar in that she is a glass cannon magic nuker with short cooldown spells. But the utility in aoe slows and a stun that she brings, along with the usable auto-attack is a source of envy for our old-school ape.
I say give him a present or two
What say you?
well OBWIOUSLY... we got a Rampage roamin our neighborhood. He's chargin up yo lanes snatchin yo people up, tryin'a bash'em. So ya'll need to hide yo carries, hide yo sitters, and hide yo courier cause he'll be rapin erbody out here!
My only issue with him is how null-stone can block his ulti. Imagine an enemy team with all 5 of them has null-stone. Now should tb use his q to take out a single null in a middle of team fight or just let the ulti takes off all the enemy team null and let his team to follow up?
It wasn't that long ago when TB was considered absurdly OP due to his ability to tear apart trilanes.
I understand he seems weak right now, and he is, but buffing him might be catastrophic.
If anything he is a victim of power creep. Poor tb.
^Originally Posted by Death_Rattle
*whistles a small tune about tb vs bomb vs artesia vs kinesis vs ellonia*
I'm judged by my wild image a lot
And everybody seems to think I have a sinister plot
I do! Be offended by every sentence I jot
I got some militant thoughts, and you ain't killin' 'em off!
So listen...
Changing his autoattack in conjunction with chain Lightning can cause too much dominance to be had; he was designed with that short CD Chain Lightning in mind.
That being said, TB has almost never been touched in either game (read: Rarely). Its not him which is the problem but the world around him. He can still output serious damage, but thats all he can offer, damage. Compared to other bursty mid heroes he is lackluster due to their multiple escapes, globals, stuns, slows, etc.
That being said, I know he was recently buffed in DotA with Lightning Rod affecting creeps, and to be honest its unnoticable. His recent buffs in HoN have been decent for him, but the problem still lies in the versatility of other others compared to him.
In before "DotA and HoN two different games ahueahe".
The sign of lost Carcosa appeared in the air, paralyzing us with dread older than the very idea of time.
As we looked on in horror, the unholy sign dissolved into a lone figure, shrouded in yellow.
Dont really see a problem here, its the same for Vindicator and SW
Overall i think TB got the same problem as many of the oldschool heroes, they just drop off with all the new heroes that are introduced, many having escape mechanisms, stuns, or heavy slows, tb remained static and mostly untouched while the game around him changed a lot
TB is still very strong imo. The point about him pushing the lane with his lasthitting is moot, because mid is a lane you -want- to push as often as not (e.g. as the rune is about to spawn) and the distance is so short that their tower will push it right back for you. He still scales (purely spell-wise) better than any other int hero in HoN because of his insanely good passive, his ultimate still effectively reduces the max hp of every enemy when its up, he counters invis heroes & shroud buyers, and as for claiming he doesn't have good lane control I can only ask wtf. Sure he might not kill the other guy regularly if they're not retarded, but once you hit level 5 and have your bottle, the other guy should be spending most of his time hiding at tower waiting for health pots. If he isn't, you're doing it wrong.
TB was once a 1st ban/pick type of hero when the tri-lane meta was popular as he was able to feed off low level supports. Now the game is fuelled with tanks with in-built shields, heroes with high mobility, cheap magic armour etc it pretty makes TB non-viable in most line ups.
I’d also like to make a point of the fact TB’s only lane option is to go mid. The removal of using your crow to re-fill your bottle pretty much stopped him from even attempting a side lane solo. Putting this hero in a dual lane scenario is just a joke.
Without focusing on the negative you look at his positives which is being able to supply high burst “MAGIC” damage. You take a look at other heroes that can do this as well e,g Kenesis, Bomb, Ellonia, Pyro etc. They all have some form of stun/slow and can also rely on the range of there auto attack.
In my opinion I think it’s fair to say TB is severely weak at the moment, he’s been pushed out of the meta, then forgotten about and finally outclassed by other heroes that can simply do it better.
It’s legitimately fair to say TB has been s2’d. He requires a buff or a re-work.
I think a very slight boost to utility/animation is all he needs to be effective again, and the buff should be placed in such a way where it doesn't affect his laning phase. For example, change chain lightning's animation so it doesn't draw a bright blue line to TB, so he can spam it in teamfights from the fog without revealing his position. Slightly increase the duration of the clear/truesight granted by lightning bolt. Or maybe him use the lightning bolt as an aoe spell with an AOE so small it can only hit one unit anyway, just so he can use it to effectively counter wards and activate the truesight on it without needing a target visible.
Nymphora+TB actually works in lane.
There's is not doubt about it working and be some what effective.
More to my point i was trying to say, why nymph tb when you can nymph pebbles (more effective) as an example. There are simply better heroes out there that can fulfil his roll.
I think he should have at least 300 MS as the new S2 heroes mostly have 300 ms.
He doesnt needs the range in my opinion, but skillwise he needs really a buff. I heard in dota he got buffed while he here got nerfed...
The last buff was nice but just to low as usual from S2, I would like to see something big, at least as big as the Soul Reaper buff.
Unfortunately, the release of Ellonia makes him look really horrible now, plz give him some love S2.
I think maybe he doesn't deserve to have such a low movespeed either. As far as I know the other heroes with low movespeed get a nice little stun/slow to help them out. (I don't confess to know all the heroes, but Pebb/Glac/Polly/WS come to mind.) And all he can do is hit people with a 350 dmg nuke. The 4 heroes I just mentioned -- if they stun/slow you and his teammates are following close behind you're screwed. If TB gets a spell in you can just run away. If you die you were already low HP anyway or already in a bad position.
I think it would be nifty to rework him a bit. Nerf his teamfight a bit but buff his laning by increasing chainlightning cooldown and increase his range maybe? Give him a little 1 second movespeed bonus when he casts bolt?
That being said, I think TB is close to being very good because he does do a lot of damage. I'm reluctant to buff him a lot but I do feel he is less than spectacular in his current state.
Please buff TB by boosting his dmg output but not giving him any extra utility, range or ms. Or else TB will just lost his characteristic. TB is all about offering crazy magic dmg but nothing else. He is designed to be slow, short ranged, without escape mechanism and count heavily on positioning.
This is also how I think balance should be - "Go Niche and Extreme".
Pure conjecture, but in my opinion one of the aspects of power-creep that screws this hero the most is not the versatility of him vs other heroes but the fact that the range of his lightning rod was reduced to 800 while HoN has grown in an environment where the capacity to output damage from as far as possible has grown even more vital (especially for TB) and other heroes can either do this or escape more easily. They honestly didn't even need to buff the passive's damage value's IMO just undo the range nerf.
squishy hero, no escape mech, no decent farming skill, 300 auto attack range, bad auto animation, no slow, only a mini-stun. Compare to long list of s2 heroes with escape mech, slow, stun, flashfarm capability, and decent burst damage all in one hero.
yep, 100% a victim of power creep. give all his skills a tapering slow trolol
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FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY~!
Don't worry guys, Lodestone won't be getting picked up in competitive, your balance forum regulars have assured it in this Lodestone balance thread ;)
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?470528-Lodestone-First-Impressions&p=15618341&viewfull=1#post15618341
This is actually a very interesting point and one that I agree with.
I think such a principle would make strats (and bans) much more intriguing. AKA you wouldn't see the same heroes and bans almost every game, but rather specific types of strategies with many heroes that perform the same basic role too but each with their own small advantages and perks.
This is how I see TB: he is strong during the middle game, when he can gank more and ults to finish enemies. He'll be a support late game, stunning enemies and dealing damage
He has some problems when going mid, but he can harass well and make the enemy stay far from the minions and you, so you can farm a bit less worried
I never feel like TB is underpowered when I play him. He is heavily dependent on items for survivability- but he offsets it by being able to deliver massive amounts of damage with relatively little.
TB scales well all game. As a ganker, he is definitely sub-par compared to some others. However, lightning rod and his ult always give him significant damage presence in any clash (assuming the other team doesn't all have Shrunkens activated before ult). He has incredible cast range, to boot.
TB more or less requires a push tablet to be viable. It will give him the extra oomph to get the killing blow cast off, or it will get him out of a bad situation. Other than that, his major weaknesses - mana hungriness and survival - can both be increased by stacking stats or hp / mp items heavily on him. He can last hit with reliability, kill heroes with relative ease, and ALWAYS get assist gold, so I never have trouble getting some core items for him.
TB requires more finesse than people might realize. More so than a lot of heroes, positioning and map awareness are extra crucial on TB because he will be a big target. A smart TB player can be a very risky gank target. If the gank set up goes wrong, TB will be dropping a massive dump of damage on the ganker's head. This hinges heavily on the HoN 101 skills - positioning, mind games, juking, recognizing who has the upper hand.
I think he's great fun and very effective. Not necessarily easy, though.
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