Greetings, everyone. Stay awhile and listen.
This suggestion is about merging two not so often used items with similar abilities into one. Before discussing the output artifact, let's take a closer look at it's components.
Item 1: Whispering Helm
According to statistics, this item has lower chances of being crafted then any other lifesteal item. Purpose of choosing this over other alternatives can be either desire to improve farming capabilities (as well as survivability due to armor boost), or intention to craft Symbol of Rage. On the other hand, looking at statistics again, only 1 Whispering Helm out of 5 becomes Symbol of Rage. This means that players get this item mostly because it makes farming and laning easier.
Ability: Dominate creep - 75 manacost, 300 seconds cooldown. Target: Non-Boss enemy creep.
Most of the time this ability is used to get a personal Minotaur, whose life purpose is to tank another creeps in the forest, to execute creep stacking or sometimes just to stand still and give you vision over the spot.
Item 2: Alchemist's Bones
Despite the greatness of this item, it can be rarely seen in games (statistic proves it as well). This item is worth making if you craft it asap and revisit creep camps every 100 seconds. After 9-10 minutes it will eventually be recompensated, making futher uses of it a clear profit. This item is so underused because there is no way to upgrade it or to use it in a recipe of a more powerful artifact.
Ability: Transmute creep - 25 manacost, 100 seconds cooldown. Target: Non-Boss enemy creep.
Using this ability on a big blue guys (Catmans) will give you 250+ instant gold, plus 40+ for killing the smaller creep, which doesn't pose any threat to your HPs alone.
As you can see, these items are very similar: both items improve your farming capabilities, both abilities are used on large forest creatures. That's why I came up with an idea of creating an artifact, which has both Whispering Helm and Alchemist's Bones in it's recipe...
Guise of Possession
Ability: Possess creep
Manacost: 100 = because 25 + 75 manacosts of component's abilities.
Cooldown: 100 seconds - when you use this ability, creep is killed, so cooldown is inherited from Alchemist's Bones.
Range: 600 - same as Transmute.
Target: Non-Boss enemy creep.
Simple explanation: When you use this ability, 2 things happen:
- Targeted creep is killed, gold earned from the kill is multiplied by 3 (same as via Transmuting).
- If the creep had any passive ability, it is added to Guise of Possession. You retain stolen ability untill you replace it with the new one or untill you die.
- If targeted creep had an aura, it becomes a passive self-only ability, granting it's effects only to the bearer.
- Doesn't steal Permanent Invisibility from Warbeast's Hellhounds (though steals Critical Strikes).
- Ability can't target Ancients, Puzzlebox minions, BooBoo, Malphas and Kongor.
- You can have only 1 passive captured at any time, getting new passive overwrites the one you already have.
- Multiple copies of Guise of Possession are redundant and still don't let you hold more then 1 passive.
- Has shared cooldown with Alchemist's Bones.
Animation: Should be like Plague Rider's Extinguish ability animation - creep's soul floating to the hero.
Icon: Should be some kind of runed mask + visuals to represent the act of soul draining.
- 2 poison damage every second for 20 seconds (10 seconds on heroes) (from Ebula)
- 15 Attack Speed (from Minotaur)
- 12% Movement Speed (from Snotter Boss)
- 30% to base Damage (from Wolf Commander, doesn't steal Critical Strikes from him cause both damage and crits would be overpowered)
- 20% chance for 2x Critical Ctrike (from neutral Wolves)
- 30% chance for 1.5x Critical Ctrike (from Warbeast's Hellhounds)
- 3 HP regen (from Vagabond Leader)
- 20% MS/AS slow on attack(from Sporespitter)
Theoretically possible changes: Going even further, I would say that some of forest creatures don't have any abilities at all, while adding 15% evasion to Catmans, or 8% bash to the grey gargoyle-like fatties would not make the gameplay worse, while bringing variety of new possibilities.
Passives stolen are not the same as they were on creeps. Numbers tweaked to balance too powerful and too weak abilities.
- 5 poison damage every second for 6 seconds, 10% movement slow on attack(from Ebula)
- 20 Attack Speed (from Minotaur)
- 10% Movement Speed (from Snotter Boss)
- 25% to Base Damage (from Wolf Commander)
- 10% chance for 2x Critical Ctrike (from neutral Wolves)
- 15% chance for 1.5x Critical Ctrike (from Warbeast's Hellhounds)
- Melee units that attack you get their attack slowed by 20% and movement slowed by 10% (from blue Ogre)
- 6 HP regen (from Vagabond Leader)
- 10% MS slow and 20% AS slow on attack(from Sporespitter)
Possession can be used on Ancients. You don't get 3x gold for them though, just normal bounty. Adding this improvement to Guise will allow to steal 2 more passives:
- 15% Evasion (from Dinosaurs)
- 25% Splash (from Dragons)
While I was thinking about this item, I came up with additional version of Guise's ability. Don't get me wrong, the one above is the one I like the most, but I want to share other possible variant as well. If first (main) variant was mostly based on Alchemist's Bones, this one uses both component's abilities equally.
Ability: Possession v2.0: 100 manacost, 240 seconds cooldown. Target: Non-Boss enemy creep.
When you use this ability, 4 things happen:
- Dominates targeted creep, getting control of it and switching it's team permanently.
- Creep becomes completely golden (tinted with shining yellow, small sparkles animation should pop up from time to time).
- Gives you gold you would get if you killed this creep, multiplied by 3.
- Guise of Possession gives the creep same bonuses it gives to the bearer (5 Armor, 20 Damage, 30 AS, 15% Lifesteal). Creep also gets 5.5 magic armor and debuffs last on it for as long as they would last on hero.
This variant of ability is about literally turning creep into gold, thus you get a more resilient minion then one you can get via Whispering Helm. Gold multiplier can be increased to compensate increased cooldown compared to Alchemist's Bones (100 -> 240 seconds), though this is a balance and not a concept issue.
I hope I succeeded at what I was trying to do - explaining the concept of this item. As it seems to me, it has big potential and can bring some innovation into the game. If you prefer to stay in jungles early game, Guise of Possession's components will let you do it more efficiently, as well as offer you a later-game improvement. And, most important, existance of such item in the game means more variants of item building. Hope you enjoyed reading this suggestion, you are truly welcome to post feedbacks and share your thoughts about Guise of Possession.
I really like the concept of this item, the components definitely need some love,
i think this item def fills a hole stat wise
but i think some of the buffs could be a bit OP on some heroes
20% chance for 2x Critical Ctrike (from neutral Wolves) on scout/CD with this items haste/lifetap.. PLUS all that extra gold from transmute...
possibly have the buffs wear off after 60-100s or nerf some of them
also adding an ice armour type buff from the ice ogre (i know its not a passive but could ad some more diversity)
I totally agree, this item needs balancing to make the stolen bonus neither too powerfull and nor too weak. Like I said, nerfing Critical Strike chances to 12% for 2x and 16% for 1.5x should do the trick.
By the way, according to the changelog of version 0.1.51 , Scout (as well as Puppet Master) got their passives nerfed:So my point is that if Guise of Possession was in-game, I would prefer stealing +30% base damage passive for Scout instead of critical strike.- Disarm's bonus damage is now dealt via a critical strike.
- Whiplash's bonus damage is now dealt via a critical strike.
* This prevents it from stacking with other critical strike items. Note that you have multiple critical strike sources that proc on the same attack, you will automatically use your most powerful critical strike.
About the idea of changing the type of stolen bonus to "temporary buff", I thought about this, setting duration to 100s (same as the cooldown) is possible, but there is one balance issue about it:
Most of the time I used Whispering Helm on Wolf Commander to get 30% damage bonus aura, it accelerates foresting or helps your team kill Kongor faster. In team battle such aura creep is useless because it is fragile and dies from 2 AoEs. One of the main purposes of Guise of Possession is to keep the desired ability safe. Creeps with auras don't run fast and you have to spend time on microing while you need to focus on controling your character's actions. My point is: loosing the stolen passive ability upon death and desire to reuse this item every 100 seconds makes the "temporary buff" restriction excessive.
Stealing Ice Armor from blue ogre seems compelling to me, but the output passive should be weaker then the buff this ability gives:
Buff: 3 armor, slows melee attacker's MS by 30% and AS by 20%.
Stolen Passive: 3 armor, slows melee attacker's MS and AS by 15%.
This item sounds really awesome.
For alchemist bones, I personally use it on puppet master because of the attack speed it gives.
And yeah I only get whispering helm to get satanic.
But this item open tons of possibilities.
It's also obviously a carry item.
I think the numbers of the abilities should be tweaked, exept if the auras just because a self bonus.
Because otherwise it makes ophelia useless AND it would be ****ing overpowered.
Other than that it's an awesome item I can't wait to see implemented, T-UP all the way.
Great idea and it is exellent that something more can be made with Alchemist bones item . I like the aura stuff on this helm coz it can fit many heroes with different ideas. Keep it up
Hahahaha easy t-up. Nice concept and choice of ingredients though the recipe is expensive! It should be no more than 700.
interesting, I like the concept, though it has very limited use as of now, that 30% bonus damage/20% crit seems viable late-game. T-up
Wonderfull idea , and would give a lot of new synergy to the game .
Brilliant, T-UP. Not a fan of alternative ability, the original ability really sells this item for me (as well as finally being able to keep midas late game again)
It should transfer actives as well, but with only 1 charge.
I thought about it. There are 4 active spells on creeps atm:It should transfer actives as well, but with only 1 charge.
- Mass stun (2 secs) - from Minotaur
- Mass slow (3 seconds, 150 damage) - from Catman leader
- Tornado (channeling) - from Vulture
- Ice shield (buffer) - from blue Ogre
Tornado is channeling and Guise is mostly for DPS characters, so channeling it instead of doing your job (killing ppl) would be weird. Ice Shield should be stolen as a passive (with numbers tweaked ofcourse). So only 2 options remain - mass slow and mass stun. Conviniently, both of the abilities have 100 manacost - same as Guise's activation cost, but it's difficult to say - is giving another one mass stun to Pestilence balanced (even for one charge)? Or giving it to Legio, or to Magebane who can blink into the middle of the crowd and use it. Well if people will reply that this is ok and that this change will make Guise better, I will add it to my suggestion.
Sounds pretty good IMO.
You get the benefit of da bump.
Last edited by CypherZ; 11-17-2009 at 05:41 AM.
T-up from me. I like this idea b/c whispering helm is a good item, but i don't always want to upgrade it to a symbol of rage. More options = win.