|
|
Correct, I see your point, but in any given game, your own team's level of "bad" is going to be comparable to the enemy's level of "bad". With any level of teamwork, you widen the gap and can exploit the enemy's horridness and get your own little pubbies to work together long enough to win a game. If, per the KotF example, a hero is not participating and just farming (even if they aren't good, on top of that), then you can take solace in the fact that 1) he's not feeding and 2) any jackass, no matter how bad, is significatnly less bad with enough items.
You just have to pinpoint those positives, highlight them, convince your team that these positives outweigh the negatives of their ineptitude, and exploit it to win your games. Keeping with the same example, keep your team playing defensive, protect the keeper and exploit his farm to win the game.
The bottom line is that you can't look at it as a negative. You have to look past and find what about that player is necessary to you to win your game.
Below 1600 Communication and Teamwork?
I think you're better off learning how to maximize inventory and how to farm than counting on others in that bracket.
It is better not to talk at all. When you try to communicate, it only pisses off your allies. If you never talk you will have more MMR because you don't give your allies something to rage about.
Trying to communicate will actually do this with some people.
You can't get anywhere near teamplay without communicating.
Originally Posted by Komei
I was going to reply to you, but then I realized your post answers itself.You can't get anywhere near teamplay without communicating.
Well, yes and no. Playing pubstomp heroes or carries and outfarming the enemy will win you some games and make you an overall better player by reinforcing your fundamentals, sure. However, not everyone wants to play carries or go mid every game. Sometimes you end up playing gauntlet in a lane with a Forsaken Archer. Who gets the farm then? You can be a jackass and grab a hatchet and take it all yourself and have a weak, useless FA for the rest of the game or you can promote team synergy, play the game the way it was intended to be played, and win the game through cooperation.
Having basic game fundamentals like how farm and how to prioritize item builds will always be a quitessential foundation for success in any like game, but it's the teamwork and cooperation fundamentals that will actually win out since, at the end of the day, it's rare that you will ever 1v5 win a game. It may feel like it, but it's never the case. Even the best field goal kicker needs a center and an offensive line.
Learning how to fabricate that cooperation in every game you play is what will make you rise through the MMR ladder. Look at it this way, let's say you can solo yourself to, per your quote, 1600. Therefore, you are a 1600 player, right? So, having the skill of other 1600 players means you should lose 50% of your games since you are no better and no worse than them. Are you comfortable with only winning every other game? Or, would you prefer to have your 1600 team outplay the other 1600 team so you can win more? After all, you're really only going to get better at facing good opponents by playing good opponents.
Ask yourself this; have you ever played a game where you had 400+ GPM and a great score and your team were running around like monkeys in a circus and no matter how hard you tried, you just couldn't win because your team just wouldn't listen?
Last edited by Jenova26; 06-21-2012 at 03:43 PM.
Good luck telling the people that are a burden to the team or that want to steal the show what they are doing wrong.
Standing up an telling you allies "Ok get this. I am going to lead you guys to victory." will only make you a mark of verbal attacks at the slightest bit of frustration.
Best way to play is how Testie plays. Make sure you are indeed the best on your team. Win mid every game and get insane gpm every game and never give your team anything to be mad about.
Last edited by Komei; 06-21-2012 at 07:24 PM.
Works for me, sometimes some 1600s gets mad and then I know I dont even want to carry them.
It all depends on how you say it. That is a point of this thread and if you read carefully all OP posts, he gives specific example how to if not avoid such reaction completely, at least make it less probably to hear.
Leadership and communication skills are not natural to everyone, it takes lots of learning and practice but it definitely works.
Exactly this. I'm not telling you to tell your team how to play. When you're solo queuing the goal isn't to better your teammates, but only to get them to work together. Raging will never make this happen. You make subtle hints and give general direction throughout, but you don't say "You get this and do this now". That, as pointed out by Komei, will tend to make the player rage. However, if you talk positively with your team throughout, they will be more inclined to take your advice later on.
Okay I'm going to be honest. I haven't read all the comments on here but I can see many flaws in this:
1. Random leavers and DC'ers: What do you do if it is 4 v 5 from the beginning and the other team won't remake?
2. Some lower level MMR are only kids, honestly, and because of the funky graphics and animal characters they play but they have no idea how to play, it's not even a negative attitude. They actually have a positive attitude to losing they really don't care.
3. Kind of carrying on from 2 but some players don't really care about the game. I got my friend into playing and he really couldn't care less if he won or lost and if he didn't have a good kdr, or wasn't doing well he would just leave. Some people don't care enough to play with the team.
4. You pick a mid hero from the beginning, then all your team pick mid heroes... or you pick a carry and everyone else picks a carry. I always usually have to end up being support, that sometimes works, but the worst thing is when you get a carry who can't play well. I mean they can farm, they can survive but late game when they are meant to help they can't. They don't have the skill necessary to carry.
For those reasons alone I am still 1440. It's not a negative attitude to why we lose, it is because of people who don't care as much as you do about the game. Think about another situation, in the work place, some guy doesn't want to work because he's lazy, he'd rather just watch youtube videos all day because it's fun. You don't want him to get the sack but whatever you try to motivate him he just ignores you because he hates his job. That's what it's like at lower MMR, you get stuck with a bunch of people who are depressed about their MMR and therefore don't care as much as they should equalling in a lack of effort and slower reactions. I think the only way to get to high MMR is either luck or queuing with friends who want to get to a high MMR with a passion as much as you.
Well, you don't have to read all of the comments, but you could at least skim my responses as I have already answered a few of your questions and don't feel like repeating.
The short answer to your post is that the majority of your games will not have pre-00:00 leavers, trolls or intentional feeders. You will occassionally run into all of the above as they do exist and sometimes you just can't do anything about it. I can't help you with those scenarios. They happen to everyone and they suck just as much everytime. Last weekend I had 4 games in a row where at least one person left before 5:00. However, we're not playing the game for those instances, nor are they the norm. If I had early-leavers, intentional feeders, and rage-whores in ALL of my games, or even more than 75% of my games, I wouldn't play HoN anymore.
You have to accept and understand that 95% of the time, players come into a game of HoN wanting to win. Your job is to capitalize on their want-to-win and use that to your advantage. You need to get them thinking like a team and focusing on the positives. You have to be the shining example of a non-raging player for this to work. Any negativity by you and your team will no longer care about any positive spin or outlook you attempt to instill. The more positive you are and the more you get your team to work together, the more successful your team will be and the more they will trust your decisions.
However, this is a mental shift - meaning you have to change your way of thinking and the outlook you walk into a game with. For instance, your four bullet points in your posts are four excuses for your MMR since, as I said before, leavers, griefers and intentional feeders or even players with less than 50 games are not representative of the majority of your games. In any given game, your opponents are facing the same pool of players and are equally likely to have the aforementioned game-ruiners in their line-ups. You have to stop expecting your team to fail and start focusing on the fact that most players join a game WANTING TO WIN. Keep them wanting to win and they will follow you. As Katieeee and a couple others have verified, the slightest bit of coordination below 1600 is all you typically need to win a game.
As for the "must pick mid" mentality (which is typically false for most players), you have to break that concept. If you think you are the best player for mid, ask your team if they would mind if you take mid. They'll often be far more receptive to a polite question than you picking a mid hero and typing "memidplz" and assuming that you're the best player on any given team. For instance, I hate playing mid (except with Polly, MB, Bubbles, and Zephyr) so I don't play mid unless I have to (if I'm clearly the best player on the team or the line-up dictates it), but even with hating to play mid and generally not going mid, I have no issues breaking 1600.
If you are putting every ounce of effort into making this work and applying it to your games and you still aren't seeing results, then perhaps you may need to look into some mentoring with Project Epoch. You may have the right mentality, but your skillset might not be where you think it is. A little bit of refinement in your basic gameplay strategies and your game fundamentals/game sense may do you really well.
I always try to do this and be a polite player. It can get really tough, especially when people get trolly and non-Englishy. You got to man up. Someone may (rare occasion) leave because they are doing terribly and are just mad, but they will leave 10x easier if you step on them and tell them how bad their moves were. The game is full of new players, noobs, and trolls, especially in the 1500-1600 bracket i've been stuck in since the game came out :/
I was looking for "you suck" or "buy wards".
But instead I got two parts I can not handle when solo-queuing.
Weird.
But over-all I agree. I am enjoying a game more if I have a mid who's losing, but is humble about it and actually communicating, then someone winning mid and ranting about how awful his team is.
If I feel I am actually heard, I will try to improve the situation so we might make a win out of what may be lost.
Thinking that their team is better is not good, thinking that they are just as bad as you (since you're all at the same rating) is better.
Last edited by Meroi; 07-19-2012 at 05:05 PM.
Well said OP. You fall under the category of Love in my sig.
Ah, the Bad Boys movies. The gold standard for race relations.
Don't Feed.
TLDR
testie has never been argued to be one of the best carries in the game, atleast not by any intelligent hon player.
cool guide. but pointless, like feeding cheese to mice. read half. ish.
also, the 1500 bracket is not filled with new players. in fact i havent had a game in weeks where i que'd with someone with less than 100+ games, often hundreds or thousands. then there are obvious smurfs who are 20-3
but hey, more excuses for losing. to many "new players to que with" lol
I guess having the highest overall and average GPM and KDR in NASL is bad. I also suppose having the #2 team in the world pay $100 to have him ring for them for a tournament (which they won) with him on carries and playing mid is also bad.
But, if Frenetic Array is willing to pay to have him ring, and he puts up the best overall carry stats whenever he plays a tournament, then clearly he can't be one of the best carry players in the game. You must know something I don't.
Or maybe you just read on the forums somewhere that he farms a lot and never helps his team and hopped on the bandwagon without any form of proof to back up your woefully uninformed opinion.
Just because someone is "new" does not mean they have less than 100 games. Stuck in the 1500s is generally indicitive of a relatively new player. Considering this genre has been out since about 2001, any player who joined HoN without playing DotA would be considered relatively "new" to the game, even if they have 1000 games. Considering the low amount of fundamental skill that it takes to get to 1600, I'd assume that most players in the 1500s are, indeed, relatively new or disinterested with improving.
Like I said in a previous reply post, it is fairly unlikely to find brand new players to the game in any of your games as they are few and far between. You may hit a few of them in the low 1500s and 1400s, but they'd fall so fast that you can't assume they are in any large percentage of your games.
Lastly, if my post was too long and you didn't read it, then don't comment on it.
Played with and against testie a few times he's probably hundreds of times better than you. Also most of the teams he plays with include noobs who pay him to play with/carry them.
But no, he's not the best player in hon by a longshot.
Posting Permissions
