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In this new tanky style metagame why isn't Pred even used by pros? Is it because he doesn't have an AoE farming tool or what?
Dear S2, all I want for my birthday is Brophelia. Please make it happen, thank you.
Because, he has no stun, no AoE to contribute to teamfights,slow farmer, he gets outcarried by the real agi carries,no real pushing tool he is really only good versus heroes, preferably low armored.
Shall I continue?
Originally Posted by Sobik
^Like none of the above
Only reason is that he gets kited by experienced players - tablet, void , frostwolf you dont beat him one on one strait up
Or the other reason is fashion there were times that Maliken , Panda , Gladiator were owning but they got forgotten
same with predator
Yeah, what do I know.
Before denouncing my arguments at lease try to bring arguments on why not, because this rejection brings no information.
Also the problem about kiting can be said about pretty much any melee carry, I decided that is obvious.
Anyways I'll just argument myself
No stun -> kite, pop void talisman, fight back etc.
No AoE -> Current meta is push orientated and him having skills that do greatly only on heroes is not what teams are looking for.
Slow farmer -> If the supports don't have AoE cleanup skills, he can't handle triplestacks by himself early on.
Get outcarried by agi carries -> Agility carries have a high amount of agility as you might suspect thus having a nice chunk of armor and atackspeed.
I'll split this in 2 parts for your ease
1) More armor -> less lifesteal
2) More attack speed -> gives the opportunity to build a brutalizer and shut you down
No pushing tool -> See "No AoE"
I think the reason is because he isn't that usefull till late game. He doesn't do much for the team and like Vo1D said, he doesn't have much pushing power either.
There're better mid game heroes with nice pushing power and late game there're better carries who work better with the team.
But in casual mode, he's probably one of the best picks.
Pred is fine early to late but like DarkAgonizer said experienced players will just kite him.
hes not like a dark lady that can charge in slow and silence all at once, hes not like a zepher that can deal damage without actually attacking and hes not like a magebane that can chase with superior movement speed and a blink etc etc
Pred needs to stay on his target and keep pounding him with auto attacks, this is impossible without a lot of help from your team ,where as other carries such as the above mentioned are capable of staying on targets and damaging them on their own.
In this world gone mad, we won't spank the EM players, the EM players will spank us.
These two statements should ban you from the strategy forum lol.
Predator is amazing early/mid game. I'd say if anything, he tapers off in late game when people start getting their sheepsticks/hellflowers/void talismans/fws.
How does casual mode make him any better? Are you implying that teams are less coordinated to kite him because they play CM? Or because late game becomes faster... because that can be said about any hard carry then.
Carries are just better in CM. Also, people tend to play more squish in CM, which is really good for him.
Simply because he sucks and theres alot better options. Hes decent in lane with good animation + dmg and he has decent slow to get some kills. Then he just starts to suck, every opponent in over 1500s should know how to counter preda and make him totally useless.
thread is about why isnt he picked to counter tanks with hes passive.... It has nothing to do with preda being tank or not.
Last edited by Ackwell1; 05-01-2012 at 11:56 AM.
And that sentence alone should ban you from the forum.
Saying he's not THAT usefull doesn't mean he isn't usefull at all. It means that there're better options mid game and preda isn't the best or even one of the best.
About casual.. you can win a casual game alone. Casual is different, it's not a teamwork mode. You can pick 5 carries and win the game. Preda late game is one of the strongest heroes, that's why i said he was one of the best picks. Not the best, but one of the best for sure.
Btw, this is a Training Grounds topic. Not a Strategy topic. And i said it was my opinion, never said it was the undeniable truth. You have every right to disagre.
Last edited by BlazingStorm; 05-01-2012 at 11:19 AM.
1. Pred 's priority isn't to be played as a tank; that will come naturally with items like shrukenheaD and behe heart.
2. He has nothing to contribute to the team by being a tank seeing as his abilities are more fit for carrying.
3. It's predator.
Last edited by Rhayne; 05-01-2012 at 11:37 AM.
Predator is really strong. His problem is that he's typically good against lineups in which people pick what they want, but he's not good against lineups that include the best heroes you can put together with a planned and coordinated strategy. Polly + Hag + Magmus + Valkyrie + Keeper just don't have much of a problem with Predator to begin with and since it's a comp team they'll make stormspirits, tablets and geos which further neuters him. But try him out against a lineup like WS + Maliken + Devourer + Elec + Plague Rider, keeping in mind that it's not a 1v5 but Predator will have his own team too and you'll see why comp teams pack as many escapes and disables into their teams as they can.
Imo Predator needs the team to be designed with him in mind, you don't want to put him anywhere. You actually want the team to be team fight oriented and also to have good anti-push power. You also want one or two other high-priority targets - it's a lot easier to win a team fight when you've got to kill Predator and then they have no carry than if you've got to kill Predator but if you do that you'll be too weak to kill the other carry and vice versa. Same thing as when you pick Armadon. In fact, Predator + Slither + Bubbles + Armadon + Flux would be nightmarish.
Last edited by Salem1; 05-01-2012 at 12:38 PM.
Also, you can't make a runed axe or a helm on Pred. And ALL carries need a lifetube early, else they will have to spend so much money on potions.
Cause no one tried him out seriously
I think you misunderstand the OP. Pred is generally considered the "anti-tank."
What about carries with inherent life steal? Maliken immediately comes to mind, as does...predator!
man just pick him, he's strong with good farm. Half of the time when you pick predator no one on the enemy team really cares enough to build items like tablet void, etc
you have 4 other team mates, rely on them for CC. you aren't a competitive player, it really makes no difference to pick him or any other carry(but I do guess maliken does the job better than he does, but who really cares.)
OK, listen to him if you wanna stay in 1300s.
He offers nothing to a push, he has no aoe, no stun, gets absolutely assraped by hellflower (picked up every single game) and supports buying void talisman / tablet (there goes your 10k+ gold spent because of just 1 1500/2000 gold item).
^these. he also gets assraped by Frostburns/Frostwolfs and Nullfires. Ever seen someone decent pick up a Nullfire vs Predator? G fuken G lul.
I picked up Nullfire on Legionnaire (who according to noobs Pred supposedly counters) in a recent game. Guess what the score was by end-game? Pred went 3-10, I don't think he carried very well
Then there's Sheepsticks, Frostfields, Enemy Daemonics, armor, barbed, list goes on. In short, there are just WAY too many ways to counter Pred to consider him vs better players, it's not worth the risk picking Pred when he can be shut down so easily.
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FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY~!
Don't worry guys, Lodestone won't be getting picked up in competitive, your balance forum regulars have assured it in this Lodestone balance thread ;)
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?470528-Lodestone-First-Impressions&p=15618341&viewfull=1#post15618341
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