A Look at Concede Vote Times

[Juspion]

All these guys saying that this is a good option and that concedes(quits/leaves) should remain, they are the reason this change is being suggested. These are the guys that think that because they perceive the game can't be won (or simply don't want to play a game where they are disadvantaged) because they only have a runed axe and the enemy carry has 3 times their farm and their whole team is 5 levels above ours. I think the concede vote should not exist.

If 2 people want to quit, it's fine, but if it is only 1 guy, more often then not (much more often) he's trying to grief. How many times have you encountered a case where only one guy wanted to quit and you convinced him to stay and actually turned the game around??? This has happened to me several times in my 1.6k games. Just remove the concede option please.

Or remove the concede as the people who do not desire to quit/give up/leave just because they are down or probably won't win are asking, and increase the leaver threshold to 10% so people who decide they do not want to play a game where they may not win can leave a game that they PERCEIVE is lost (or simply don't want to play it unless they're winning).


C WUT I DID THER? YOUR WORLD IS FLIPPED.

Nice try, to bad you are implying that 1 person wants to concede and the rest of the team don't. This is NOT what I'm talking about, and the change S2 is proposing wont affect that, as 1 guy alone can't concede the game. Of course that when there is only 1 player that wants to concede you can convince him to play and still win, this happens a lot. But please give me an example out of your 1.6k games where you were the ONLY one who wanted to play and you still won.

When 4 people want to concede the game, no matter if it is because they think they lost or because they don't want to play together anymore, it should pass IMHO.

[[WWWN]Su0T]

So you plan to change the concede system based on... the one player wanting to play the game, but who is considered to keep the other players hostage?. Crap. You should address the flaw pointed by Ipeonpeons, since anonymous voting will possibly reduce the number of grief-kicking involved.
I don´t like theese changes, and I don´t like the concede system at all, it kills the game, but if you like it this much, here's a suggestion: make it able to concede 5/5 since the start of the game (oh crap we've been outpicked! -> I've met zillions of players like that), being 1 less vote required every 3 minutes (oh we've been bl'ed in the 1st minute, we lost for sure!). Game fixed. This way you can play awesome and intense 6 minutes games.

[[Q]TwoStronk]

Now you must do something about a player that leaves in the very beginning of the game. Because other team thinks they can easily win coins and mmr because of that. Must be the decision make by the affected team and the player who left the game have a ban of 15 mins or something.

[[SBT]Nexorian]

Possibly make anonymous votes.

Also, I am often against 4/5 concede, and 7 min concede, because very often the game is winnable for me and my teammates disagree.

What I suggest is a harder punishment and easier bans/reports for people who refuse to cc in order to grief

[Twinniss]

I think the current system is perfect

if its overwhelming early, 15min is pretty much a good time for 5 people to decide that there is perhaps a slim chance to win, i would argue the 17-18min marker though. 30min mark might be a lil too long though, usually if i had to wait until the 30min mark for the 4 man concede it would usually be around 25-28min mark where a team is thinking "we cannot win this". Anything past that has sort of felt to be a tense even game.

so in the end, i'd prefer maybe moving the timer up or down by 2-3min.

What would really be a nice factor is if the game decides when a 4/5 concede is appropriate. Huge gold/exp difference (like 17-20k) or maybe kill difference (25) could unlock the 4/5 concede. 30min would then act as a "it doesnt matter anymore, if you want to concede, go ahead"

[Batchman]

First of all, loving new "Look at" polls

anonymous voting is a must
I understand you wanting concede sooner, whatever is ok, seriously it does not change much

but what I want to see is, longer cooldown on vote, something like 10min, players usually play better when they cant cc, but grief when spamming vote does not go through

[[POBs]ScoutEZ]

why do so many of you want to concede so fast? u french brah?

[Inuminas]

I dont lke the change in CM.
i know it is done to play faster, but usually at 7 mins is still to early t know if the game is over.

[`Gorre]

I disagree with the CM change, I'm afraid most games from now on would be "We either stomp in 7 minutes or we cc and try again next game", but most of all, these changes promote Conceding instead of persuading people to at least try and that's something I seriously hope you guys aren't doing.

[Fairy_]

This is a good change. If I'm playing in a pub then I don't really care if I could *possibly* win. If I want to concede, then I just don't want to play with my teammates period (9/10 of the time). I'm gonna be upset that I played with these clowns if I win or lose. If I'm gonna 4/5 man MM then this is fine.

+/+

[Grab`n`Pills]

I dont care for CM, since i dont take that mode very serious, but dont implement that for normal mode!
I know that on the lower ratings there are many trolls and baddies, who would rather do **** then try to turn a game around, but on the higher bracket i managed more then once to do a comeback, against my 4 teammates, who sometimes even thanked me for not ccing!
As soon the enemys start pushing the base (which starts in a bad game ~25 min), you always have good chances of winning teamfights, so ccing at the 22 min mark would cut out the whole mid-/endgame in many rounds.
So i am strongly against this change!

[Zgegator]

OP suggestions are going in the WRONG direction.
The problem is not one person holding the others as "hostages" (they're forced to what ? play hon ? they joined the game by their own right ?), the problem is the ability for 4 people and sometimes less (because others left) to prevent someone from playing and force him to lose !!!
It looks like you guys never played a game where a guy decides that the picks are wrong, flames a guy until he leaves and then spam concede votes. I played a lot of those games. And I played a lot of games where I was the only one not to cc and we won. And I played a lot of games where the 4 others were a clan. They decide to make me lose for wrong reasons ? I cant do anything, I lose.
Just because 4 people think at one point of the game : usually after they're being genocided, that the game is lost, they are given the right to make your game lost whithout you being able to do anything ??
Isn't that obvious that this is by far the most unfair situation ?
I really don't understand how you can care about the "hostage" situation, that don't force any stats to anyone rather than the situation where the others control your stats directly without you being able to say anything.

----> REMOVE CONCEDE <------
----> REMOVE CONCEDE <------
----> REMOVE CONCEDE <------

[Zgegator]

The only way to fix the concede vote is to remove it from the game. That way people can stop *****ing about getting ganked once at level 3 (or whatever other stupid reason they can find to throw a tantrum) and concentrate on actually trying to play as best they can.

this

[Zgegator]

But please give me an example out of your 1.6k games where you were the ONLY one who wanted to play and you still won.

I have plainty of them !!!

[orbitalx]

This is a good change. If I'm playing in a pub then I don't really care if I could *possibly* win. If I want to concede, then I just don't want to play with my teammates period (9/10 of the time). I'm gonna be upset that I played with these clowns if I win or lose. If I'm gonna 4/5 man MM then this is fine.

+/+

Then why do you solo que at all? If you think the other 9 people are just clowns and your only wasting your time from the get go, why go and ruin other peoples experience? If your alone, go play public, or some all middle. I know for a fact that your clan is fairly big, and there is almost always someone to que with, so dont go and ruin other peoples games because you dont even care if you can win or not.



Also, if S2 decides to keep the Concede option they should make another drastic change such as: If you lose two games back to back your automatically banned from Match Making for 6 hours or something. Give people a reason to play.. an incentive to actually try.

[GrymM]

Normal Mode: Don't show what people vote.. if you can't blame someone things tend to go better. Lowering the concede time isn't a good idea because people already have a horrible habit of giving up too early. You don't get better by bowing out as soon as things look bad.

I would personally have: 4/5@25. and no option to concede earlier, but I know I'm a minoirty there.

Casual Mode: Either remove this mode altogether(Ideal). Or eliminate all rewards for games that go on less than 15 minutes

[[G]Atrim3ntus]

The CM timer is way too early in my opinion. Perhaps up the 7 min to 10 min or 12 min. Maybe even 15 min but still be 4/5. I've been playing CM lately to see how each game is by the 7 min mark and it has felt too soon. The amount of silver coin abuse that would happen would be immense. People would be choosing line ups designed to dominate the game that early, lowering the other team's morale and pushing them to CC at such an early time even though there'd be a high chance of a comeback.

[[S2]Sell]

I do think that there should be some type of option or small teeny tiny incentive for a proper early concede so it won't make people apt to grief. I mean such as losing 1 less MMR something marginal [and mark it like 20% less to make it seem notable at first glane but the reality is it will be like 1 MMR]. You already have incentive for the opposite, people winning early which can actually make people NOT want to concede. I think that's counter intuitive.

[[QQ]DeathGr0wl]

So you plan to change the concede system based on... the one player wanting to play the game, but who is considered to keep the other players hostage?. Crap. You should address the flaw pointed by Ipeonpeons, since anonymous voting will possibly reduce the number of grief-kicking involved.
I don´t like theese changes, and I don´t like the concede system at all, it kills the game, but if you like it this much, here's a suggestion: make it able to concede 5/5 since the start of the game (oh crap we've been outpicked! -> I've met zillions of players like that), being 1 less vote required every 3 minutes (oh we've been bl'ed in the 1st minute, we lost for sure!). Game fixed. This way you can play awesome and intense 6 minutes games.

^THIS

Also, Juspion, that case where 1 player alone doesnt concede leading into a turnaround. I ve seen it quite some times. May that 1 Person be me, an enemy or a teammate.

If it's about my opinion, I TOTALLY support the idea to make the CC votes anonymous and to Increase the CC vote timers.
Quote Batchman; "anonymous voting is a must
I understand you wanting concede sooner, whatever is ok, seriously it does not change much

but what I want to see is, longer cooldown on vote, something like 10min, players usually play better when they cant cc, but grief when spamming vote does not go through".
And he is not the only one .

Greetingz,
Deathgr0wal

[[gi]Quillraven]

first of all: +1 for anonymous votes (kick+cc)

second: why can't we just cc whenever we want?
i had a lot of games (especially when i queue up with 4 more friends) where the other team is just better than we are. these games are mostly over at the 10 minute mark. i have no problem accepting that other players are just better than i am or that other teams have a much more better teamplay than we have. so why can i not cc an already lost game.
therefore - allow cc vote after 10 minutes in both modes (5/5). i know that not every game is lost after 10minutes but there sure are those kind of games. staying afk for 5 minutes at the fountain is not fun. keep sacrificing to the already fed enemies isn't fun either.

if not all 5 players want cc (this will happen in games, where i do not queue with 4 other friends):
- make a cc vote cooldowntimer of 2 minutes
- after 20 mins make it a 4 out of 5 vote
- after 30 mins make it a 3 out of 5 vote

the 2 minute cooldown timer gives you the option to "turn around" or "comeback" to the game. f.e. if your carries have freefarm for 2 minutes and the enemy team is failing to push that tower or if you win a teamfight within that 2 minutes
or
it might convince the "griefer" if your team still falls apart and keeps sacrificing one by one and so on.

if 4 out of 5 player want to move on to a new game i won't blame them and imo they should have the right to do that. therefore 4/5 cc after 20 mins.
if the "griefer" has a friend -> 3/5 cc after 30mins (lets face it. after 30mins you can alrdy tell how the game went)



@players who want to remove cc vote: i don't want to play 60mins+ boring dota2 games. i want a fast and action paced game like hon. i don't mind having a 60+mins game once in a while but i don't want them every game. if you like that, just swap to dota2 pls but stop trying to destroy hon.
and yes there sure ARE games that you are able to turn around but if 4 out of 5 players don't want to play another 40mins to turn it around why should YOU be allowed to take out the fun of the game for 4 other players?