I don't think it's the best option, but it's an improvement.
I feel that the current system is better than this one.
For all those who want refund on their MEGA INVESTMENT od 10$ for 90 heroes.
You cant have money back for discounted goods.
As many surely already mentioned before me, if you want a static hero pool I'd rather see some sort of mix between this new and the current. Some rotation needs to be done in order to want to buy the hero.
I hate to bring this up, but if I play LoL (I play all three "major" AoS-children) what keeps me buying heroes there is when I try a new hero, furthermore, it's easier to learn what a hero does if you've tried it at least once, you know what you're up against.
I can see where you are going with this, because you can make it so that always one "free" hero is in modes such as SD/RD with the proposed system, which is an improvement. I just think that there could be some middle ground.. like, the three heroes you get in SD will always have one of the heroes you own. Even if has potential balance issues in terms of drafting, that mode was never made for counter-picking anyways, it was made to make the best puzzle of the pieces you have which can still be done with a potential static-heropool + some rotation.
So, I'd say 10 "basic" heroes, and 10 rotating. This is a lower amount of heroes than the suggestion in the OP (in total) but it still leaves the f2p player with 20 heroes to choose from at least, 10 are new and 10 will eventually become familiar.
There's both good and bads about the suggested and the current system. It's hard to see what completely new players want. Currently in LoL (stealing good ideas from other companies is not bad, everyone does it in every industry) they have a larger bunch of cheap heroes than in HoN (relative to time spent to get a hero) that are fairly easy to access. You will be able to buy a hero after four or five games. Let's be honest, in HoN after five games as a complete beginner. There's no co-op mode against bots(yet), public games (where new players are directed to by older players to "practise") does not get you any silver coin income. I'm not suggesting Pub-play should, or any of that. But that is a difference between the models. Now, take all this into consideration and look at how many games you need to play to get a hero in HoN, as a beginner you'll not get more than 12 coins a game unless someone is completely stomping the enemy team and gets an Annihilortal. See where the big initial problem is? Coin income is based on performance, not time spent playing the actual game. At least not your coins-per-minute income. A game can take all between 15-90minutes, but there is in some cases no coin difference between the games, despite one being a staggering four times as long as the other. Yes, you might get more kills, assists and so on through a long game, but this does not net as much income as if you would have played 4 games and lost at minute 15.
The cheapest hero goes for about 65 coins, this means that a beginner will have to play around 10 games to get one, considering they will start off completely new and perhaps lose the first game in the 1500 bracket (because smurfs, veteran players etc), their teambuddies will firmly suggest that the beginner plays nostat pub games, as a new player they listen to older players unless they are too rude and will play some no-stat pubgames, perhaps four. Then get back and play the last 5 to get one hero they can play, this will be Plague Rider or Sand Wraith, I think. I think also Elec is very cheap but I at least know that there are not ~10 heroes this cheap. Since there's no co-op mode, there's no time to practise and get a steady income of silver coins in a more friendly setting at the same time.
While I know that rewarding big plays like Immortal streaks or Annihilations, I don't think we should base income only on performance stats (kills/assists/streaks/wards). What helps with this is the level-up system, but it honestly isn't enough. Some kind of coins per minute spent would be in order if one asks me, it doesnt' have to be all that much, this could even be an income-source that perhaps leaves the account once they are verified. I'm just throwing in ideas here. Not suggesting this is for sure much better, but I think it is at least somewhat better.
I've seen you hinting that bots are coming to Newerth, this would be great for beginners, I strongly suggest that you at least let unverified accounts gets some kind of coin income in these bot-games too, I know you want to shorten the MM-queues and that's why you have income only in the mode, this is good for all the players that are not new. The new ones will have to choose between practise in a moderately hostile setting and get coins, or practise in a friendly setting without coins. Time spent playing the game should be just as treasued as time spent playing the game in a semi/half-competitive setting (MM). Currently I guess EU and US does not have the playerbase to support this and still get healthy queues, so that's an issue I guess.
RIP in Pepperonis m8
I cry evertim
//Greger af Moek de la Hoek from Soek in Roek
I like this, but the whole "base to things like upgrade-to-legacy" thing is stupid, legacy accounts should remain the way they are.
This is the only thing i don't like about the suggestion. All the heroes should be buyable with silver coins. Because otherwise it is a terrible system and is in no way any better. (If the plan is to allow them to be bought for silver even if such a change occurs then please specify that in the original post)It is a simple, perfect base from which to implement potential additions such as an Upgrade-to-Legacy fee or a subscription model to access the rest of the heroes in the future, should we decide that they are beneficial to the new player experience.
I feel 30 static is a great idea, players become comfortable with the heroes available to them and then can go onto buying new heroes once they get bored or have saved up.
In saying that putting in a rotating 10 or so heroes say into non-stat pub games/casual games wouldnt be a terrible idea, but keep it out of NM MM, that way people can try new heroes where its not going to have an effect on serious games. (yes im 1500 but there still serious to me dammit)
As a whole system i think it'll keep more new players then the old system since a week is not enough time for new players to get used to the game and the heroes they have started out with.
I feel the static pool should be full of low tier/noob friendly heroes and keep the complexer heroes to be bought. This way players are inclined to get those interesting heroes, thus increasing money for S2 which keeps the servers and content updates going.
As for the pay to legacy, the concept is good (dont call them legacy tho) giving people the option to pay a flat fee to get all heroes and new (non-ea) heroes.
As said as well, we only paid $30 bucks for this game 2-3 years ago, ive spent $150 in getting coins as well. people need to stop claiming they are better since they have been here from the start and try to promote to get more ppl to the game, and giving them a fair chance to buy all the heroes at a reasonable price ($50?)
Thats just my opinion anyway. S2 keep up the good work and thanks for taking in community advice.
TLR 30 static for MM maybe 10 rotating for casual or nonstat/pub games
I LOVE it... literly ... LOVE.. Ya I said that....
There is nothing that urks me more about the current system than the fact that the best modes of play are unavailable to me or available in a very limited fashion. My friends who do play this game refuse to play with me in ALL PICK so giving us access to the other modes is seriously the best aspect of this whole thing.
I also think that 15 heroes was insufficient and Im glad that was reckognized. I really felt like as a noobie I was at a serious disadvantage and the learning curve was unescessarly made more complex by the rotation. Static 30, its a perfect number. I think it would be great if you guys added an extra 5 heroes in a rotation somewhere... perhaps heroes that are on sale! I mean.. I don't mind spending money on a hero at all, but I would like to take him for a test spin before I buy, in particular when using real money but even with silver which is hard to come buy I think it would be nice.
One thing I just want to throw out there is the Map Editor. I think its ironic that a game, really an entire genre of gaming was created by the player community fiddling with a map editor yet one of the best results of that Genre (HON) doesn't have a way for players to release and use their own maps. Its really kind of.... out of place. This games map editor needs to be handed to the community with full support, its a hell of a lot better than having the pressure on you (S2) to create maps for us. Its better that you create a good rating system and downloading system for player created maps and just turn the whole thing over to us. The modding community could do wonders with this thing so .... put it on the list!
Also People you do realise the F2P system needs to benefit S2 and not the community? (i mean that a financial way) Giving Players a free extra 5-10 heroes each week to choose from will potentially slow new kids to buy heroes because they will get 5 new choices each week. You need to make your judgements from there point of view and interests, as said the more money they can make means the more they can invest back into the company. which means more benefits for the community
Another vote here for 20 static + 10 rotate.
Reverse Pick Game Mode:
Slippers of retreat: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=402103
Language flags : http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=402084
I'd vote for 18 static + 12 rotating heroes. 3 from each of the six categories: legion: agi,int,str - hellbourne: agi,int,str.
Additionally I would like to see a daily rotation where each day a new hero is faded in and an old hero is faded out, so each rotating hero would be available for 12 days.
Just my 2 cents.
The english language can be tricky, often a missing word can completetly change the meaning behind a sentence but I don't think he is saying that they will eliminate the silver coin purchase stuff, I think what he is saying is that they might create alternative methods to get all heroes in the game in addition to the existing ways. For example for 9.99 a month you get access to all heroes in the game.And what is that silver refund stuff? So i've spent months grinding silver for new heroes and now you'll just remove a couple from my hero pool and give me back my silver, but the heroes i have already bought and own will be again only available to me if i buy it with money or a monthly fee? Are you serious?! No way i'll keep playing if something like this happens, no way.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I mean if you want to own heroes permenantly you can grind the silver or purchase them with gold. If you just want access to all the heroes and you don't have a legacy account you can simply rent the game for a month for a subscription fee.
I don't see how offering more choices in how you pay for the game is a bad thing, I mean I didn't see anything in his post that said "we are getting rid of silver", to the contrary they plan to refund silver you have spent on heroes that will become free, which obviously suggests that you will be able to use that silver to buy other heroes.
I think the subscription idea is awsome and I would for one be in on that. I mean a small subscription fee to play a great online game.. **** I do that all the time, its nothing new at all!
Personally though I would love to see HON full game mode go for sale aka... selling legacy accounts. Im not sure how that would affect the finances of S2 games, if its good or bad or what not but I think it kind of sucks that just because I discovered the game later than others that my options are now permenantly limited. There is nothing special about having started the game earlier, I mean.... whats the big deal, put the game on sale and let us buy the litle bugger. I would be fine with a 50 dollar price tag, I mean a great game is easily worth that and this is a great game.
As someone said: Some static heroes(20ish) and some rotating(10ish) is the better option.
Tempest - When things aren't going your way.
This sounds like a perfect solution. A much better model than before.
But maybe you should still let people play free heroes, I mean, keep a sort of rotation system where you each week enable a free sample of 2-3 heroes so people can try out potential purchases.
All the legacy players complaining about f2p-players maybe getting the chance to upgrade to upgrade to legacy, reminds me of when the gold shields where whining about everyone being able to purchase taunt in the shop.
Hell, if more people get all heroes it will make for more variety in games = better games imo. So win/win for everyone.
Yeah, thats right. Be scared!
Maybe just give current legacy accounts some icon to stop the butthurt, they want to feel special. We in beta received gold shield, let them have one as well so they don't drown in their own tears.