Improving the Free-to-Play System

[[EIF]Oeshy]

Main flaw is the static hero pool.

Games will lack even more variety than the previous system.

Also players will buy less heroes. I know as a F2P player that I purchased heroes with gold after enjoying them from a free rotation week. I would test new heroes and if I liked them I would save up silver or buy them with gold/

The ideal solution here is to have a combination of static heroes and rotation heroes.

Since the number was adjusted from 15 to 30, why not have 20 static heroes and 10 rotation heroes. Or 15 static and 15 rotating?

[[J4K]E11imist]

I agree with what a lot of people are saying, having a static roster as well as a smaller roster of about 10 heroes that rotate on a weekly basis would be best.

[[GTH]MrSnowJr]

Hey Guys and Gals,

About a week ago, we made a post identifying some of the weaknesses we see in our current F2P Hero Rotation System. Here they are again for quick reference:

• When 10 heroes are used per game, a pool of 15 heroes does not offer much variety from game to game.
• Because of the limited pool, game modes like SD and Banning Pick are problematic and require work-arounds (tokens and passes).
• A new player may lose access to a hero that he's become familiar with, adding another hurdle in the learning process.
• Moreover, when the F2P heroes rotate, the heroes that new players become accustomed to playing with and against get replaced as well!
• While players have access to 15 heroes each week, they have ownership of none of them. This means they can not unlock avatars for any of these heroes without first unlocking the hero.

Since then, you guys have been overwhelmingly helpful with 8 pages of Forum responses full of feedback and suggestions. Thanks so much for putting time and thought into ways to improve the gameplay experience for new F2P players! A lot of you had great ideas, and it was pretty cool and vindicating to see that some of the ideas we were bouncing around internally were espoused by you guys as well. That said, we've considered a bunch of things internally as well as read through and considered each and every one of your suggestions, and this is the gameplan that we're thinking of moving forward with:

1. We will expand the Free Hero Pool from 15 heroes to 30 heroes.
2. We will carefully craft a balanced (10 of each attribute) pool of 30 heroes, taking into factors such as difficulty to play and hero roles.
3. The Free Hero Pool will no longer change from week to week - it will remain completely static. Furthermore, it is no longer a "Free Hero Pool" - F2P players, new and old, will simply start the game OWNING all 30 chosen heroes.
4. We will refund any Gold or Silver Coins players have spent on the 30 chosen heroes.
5. We will start work on the code changes necessary to run all of the modes that you currently need tokens/passes for without them, and have any modes that randomly select heroes do so from ALL of the heroes available to a player (the base 30 + whatever he unlocks).
6. After that functionality works, we will remove passes and tokens. 30 heroes is enough to run any of the modes, even if no player has any additional heroes unlocked.

What we like about this course of action is that:

• It addresses all of the issues presented directly and elegantly.
• No rotation means there is a defined "Starting Hero Pool" that players can learn and pick up the game with, without having to learn how to play with and against a new set of heroes every week.
• It creates a very simple system, made even more attractive in that it allows for complete removal of the cumbersome tokens/passes mechanic.
• It is a simple, perfect base from which to implement potential additions such as an Upgrade-to-Legacy fee or a subscription model to access the rest of the heroes in the future, should we decide that they are beneficial to the new player experience.

As welcome, we ask for and welcome your feedback - what do you think, guys?

Um what? "Upgrade-to-Legacy" When "Legacy" came out I was assured that I was part of the few who actually bought the game, and that there would be no way to "upgrade" to being a Legacy player. I support your idea for a subscription model, but you need to proof read your stuff and not make it seem like you are doing a 360. again..
Be sure to be respectful of Legacy players, S2! And keep it so that we are not exactly above other players, but stand out as we should.

I agree with everyone else on the Hero Pool change, an even balance of 15 static and 15 rotating (5 from each class static, and 5 from each rotating) or 20 static and 10 rotating (still equaling 10 from each class) would be the best course of action in terms of non-monotony.

[Apanthropy]

Non-rotating hero pool seems pretty awful and poorly thought out. You're forcing new/free account players to spend coins (and real money, at times) on heroes that they can't even test out anymore because there is no rotation. That means if someone wants to unlock a hero, no matter which hero that is, they are taking a 100% shot in the dark with their hard earned coins or money, hoping that they will like the hero when they unlock it.

It's like not allowing people to test drive a car before they buy it, and telling them there's no refunds if they don't like it. It's just a terribly thought out system.

[[DABO]MONSTERDONG]

THIS IS GREAT!! I think this would be better than current system and the split of rotation and starting pool would be even better as most people have expressed. In regards to the fee for a Legacy account, I believe as a Legacy player that this should of been implemented when the f2p model started. It's alot harder if even possible for new (free) players to get into competetive HoN which should be of high importance to the game. If you can pay to have legacy account then alot of good free players could bolster the currently weak competetive scene.

Just my thoughts anyways.

[[BotF]Flamebane]

As most people here said, 30 static is a pretty bad idea imo, it takes away all the fun of discovering new heroes. 15 (5 from each attr) static and 15 (5 again from each attr) rotating is, probably, the best way to go.
Also, if you do introduce a legacy upgrade fee I will never believe a single thing anyone from s2 says, ever again, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Best thing to do imo is add lots of packs that are cheaper than buying each hero individually.

Also, what I believe is an important issue, legacy players don't really get any sense of reward from games. Not just the +/-5 which now fluctuates horribly more than ever before, but the coins are nigh useless. 1st thing, the legacy players payed for your game before it went f2p and you promised it would never take LoL's path. Yet it did. Now, you draw closer to rendering legacy accounts obsolete. Doubling the coin-reward for legacy accounts would be probably one of the easiest and best thing to do imo and I really doubt your bank accounts would take any kind of hit.

[Khrato]

Just, LOL.
30 static is bad idea? And how many you've got at this moment in rotation? Yes. Only 15. You want to buy an character - practice mode. You want to see this char in action, you'll for sure on youtube with pro actions.
So S2 decided to GIVE for free starting pool for new players which is in my opinion best option for US and for S2 as a company. Cuz' if you are saying 20+10(rotation) im laughing so much. Cuz' for S2 as a company this rotation which we have already is better. Don't you think?

[[QQ]DeathGr0wl]

damn lack of rotation sucks

better off with 20static and 10 rotated ;p

edit
reasoning:

1/ rotation gives a trial period for player to test new heroes which further encourages him to buy it eventually [win-win for you]
2/ more variety

^ THIS

[Gank_2_Kill]

just, lol.
30 static is bad idea? And how many you've got at this moment in rotation? Yes. Only 15. You want to buy an character - practice mode. You want to see this char in action, you'll for sure on youtube with pro actions.
So s2 decided to give for free starting pool for new players which is in my opinion best option for us and for s2 as a company. Cuz' if you are saying 20+10(rotation) im laughing so much. Cuz' for s2 as a company this rotation which we have already is better. Don't you think?

i completely support this guy

but can someone please answer this question... Maybe an s2 admin preferred....

If i got the $10 bundle for 90 heroes at christmas ans the static heroes idea do come out... Will i get a gold or silver refund on the heroes that i have or is that money just wasted... Because i assure you that i will not be happy if i dont get a gold refund on my payment for the 90 heroes that become permanently free...

[BuNnYoNaHiGh]

Yes i totally agree with Gank_2_Kill i also bought the 90 characters for $10 i think u should refund that in gold. I love this idea seems really cool but to all those who have the characters by getting it a different way than gold or silver (legacy and that Christmas event 90 characters thing) there should be some sort compensation of gold. Would really appreciate this S2 if this could be done.

I like the idea but i bought the heroes when the christmas event was on for 90 heores for 10$ will i get refunded gold for that? if not i think thats really unfair to the people that did...

[Apanthropy]

Just, LOL.
30 static is bad idea? And how many you've got at this moment in rotation? Yes. Only 15. You want to buy an character - practice mode. You want to see this char in action, you'll for sure on youtube with pro actions.
So S2 decided to GIVE for free starting pool for new players which is in my opinion best option for US and for S2 as a company. Cuz' if you are saying 20+10(rotation) im laughing so much. Cuz' for S2 as a company this rotation which we have already is better. Don't you think?

Playing in practice mode and watching youtube videos of a hero reveals absolutely nothing about how the hero actually plays in real games. Sorry.

[[TGCH]_Phoenix_]

"to implement potential additions such as an Upgrade-to-Legacy fee"
Well that sucks....except it would be a monthly fee like 10 bugs a month or so...i guess as a legacy player who also has the golden shield i could live with that

[[KCD]Ritualst]

It's really good idea S2!

It surely helps new people get a good feeling about this game and cuts the cost quite considerably for f2p people.

Good Job, can't wait to see it implemented

[[gi]kwei]

why dont:

* legacy account for >$50 <$100
* give beta and legacy some extra/advantage (try before buy ea heroes, colors, shields, hugs and kisses, etc..)
* clans only for legacy players (you anyway need all heroes to play serious)
* No rotation
* 30 Free heroes
* Try before buy >3 <5 times
* Raise the verified account games to 100+ and/or implement an additional "experienced players only" for players with 200+ games
* Dont raise the mmr for wins for the first 20 games so much (immortal first game ~= +75 ???) raise the win mmr normal only the loss mmr should stay the same (backwards immortal = feeder = -75)

benefits:
* new willing players can purchase all heroes at once via legacy and can play tournaments etc..
* legacy wont cry (nah anyway they will, i wont)
* Rotation is just plain stupid, f2p players can try a hero a few times if they like it they can buy it or buy a legacy
* 30 free heroes are enough to just play
* verified only matches or experienced only matches will have less frustration value
* New players with a good teams and plain luck can get to regions where they dont belong to and **** up other players game in higher regions.
* Often experienced players randomly having bad luck in 1400 - 1600 games by having players with 21 games and will certainly loose the game because of obvious reasons.

[Sk0ld]

Like many posters here I think that having a rotation is a good thing. I believe that you need to try as many heros as you can to actually get better in HON, numbers won't do much for you.

-With that said having a bigger pool and some of it being static is a decent idea. My idea though, would be to keep that 30 static poool BUT also give the free-to-play something like 5 tokens each week, tokens they can use once a week to unlock a hero they choose to unlock.
These tokens would then reset every week and so would the 5 locks they removed, letting them choose 5 new heroes they could try for a week.

-This system let's new players try their hand at new heroes and also gives them a decent static pool. I also believe it would increase hero unlocking-sales as people would be able to try the heroes they might want to buy for a week. And if they do not want to buy a hero but still love it, they can unlock it every week.

So, i just came up with that and I can't really see the drawbacks but hell, what's not to like ?

[JeanMi]

Fixed heroes + rotating ones seems less boring
The proposed change is still better than what exists now.

[[HLN]OJPhoenix]

So much approval for this, the idea of a Standard Introduction Pool is a fantastic idea and I agree with everything in the post.

That said, I too can't help but feel that a small "Trial Pool" that rotates around to give people the opportunity to test other heroes before buying them could also work quite well.

Also very pleased to hear that the potential for Upgrade to Legacy will be possible this way, I was rather disappointed about its absence.

good work S2

[Gank_2_Kill]

Like many posters here I think that having a rotation is a good thing. I believe that you need to try as many heros as you can to actually get better in HON, numbers won't do much for you.

-With that said having a bigger pool and some of it being static is a decent idea. My idea though, would be to keep that 30 static poool BUT also give the free-to-play something like 5 tokens each week, tokens they can use once a week to unlock a hero they choose to unlock.
These tokens would then reset every week and so would the 5 locks they removed, letting them choose 5 new heroes they could try for a week.

-This system let's new players try their hand at new heroes and also gives them a decent static pool. I also believe it would increase hero unlocking-sales as people would be able to try the heroes they might want to buy for a week. And if they do not want to buy a hero but still love it, they can unlock it every week.

So, i just came up with that and I can't really see the drawbacks but hell, what's not to like ?

the thing is if they player can unlock the hero for a week.. then whats stopping them from unlocking the same player evrytime because the tokens refresh evry week... its pretty much like owning the character (if that makes sense what i just said).... and what i would like to add is that this quote is actually a not bad idea except maybe 5 tokens and they onlock the character for 3 plays... and then it goes away to stop people from unlocking the character for the rest of their hon carreer

[Claw]

I think the model

- 21 static heroes (7 of each attribute; carefully selected by S2)
- 9 weekly rotating heroes (3 of each attribute)
- Upgrade-to-legacy for 50-80$

would be the best for HoN. Hoenstly, you need all Heroes to play this game on a serious base, so why not add the buying option again?
It's just immensely stupid of current legacy players to act like 5-year-olds saying "that's my toy"!
New players can be fished with F2P, the ones that get to love the game would P2P - where's the problem?

A larger player base will always bring benefits for every player.

The only problem I might see, is that S2 won't earn as much money as they want/need to.
I say that, because the old system, where HoN was P2P obviously didn't work out well in the end.
But there wasn't a F2P option, which might've constantly addicted new players.


We'll see what S2 makes their decision.

[[H3LP]Nospheratu]

• It is a simple, perfect base from which to implement potential additions such as an Upgrade-to-Legacy fee or a subscription model to access the rest of the heroes in the future, should we decide that they are beneficial to the new player experience.

I strongly disagree with this part; i will also very probably quit playing HoN on a regular basis (or maybe even permanently) if the only way for free-to-play players to purchase heroes beyond the basic 30 hero pool is a payable upgrade or a monthly fee. And just when i thought that HoN could eventually rise to the same popularity level as LoL... LoL doesn't have a monthly subscription either, but is immensly more popular; the only difference is that you can FREELY play all modes once you reach a CERTAIN LEVEL. In LoL you can also purchase hero packages for money - like in HoN to some extent - and it still works without any subscription.

Imho if this is implemented, new potential players will just take a look at both games and go: "Oh, in LoL i can eventually get all heroes for free, but in HoN i'll never be able to get all heroes for free; well, LoL it is then." At least that's what i would do, regardless of graphics and playability. Yes, S2 - even graphics and awesome gameplay mean little to many people compared to the possibility of getting more stuff for free.

And what is that silver refund stuff? So i've spent months grinding silver for new heroes and now you'll just remove a couple from my hero pool and give me back my silver, but the heroes i have already bought and own will be again only available to me if i buy it with money or a monthly fee? Are you serious?! No way i'll keep playing if something like this happens, no way.

As some have suggested - make 20 static heroes and 10 rotated with each friday patch, but all heroes - including the non-free ones available through silver, ergo for just playing the game. Make all modes available once you reach level 20, if you want to get rid of tokens so desperately (i for one find the method pretty good and not at all cumbersome, all one needs to do is read the instructions).

If you plan to lock free players up for only 30 heroes and make all the rest available only through payable upgrades or monthly subscription, prepare to see a well deserved backfire and player reduction. Please think about it a bit more.

/a concerned and sincere fan of HoN

Edit: i agree with adding the upgrade-to-legacy option, but why don't you just make a full old hero pool package and make it available in the shop for say 50$?

Edit 2: You wanna know, what would REALLY increase player/spender numbers?! BOTS!!! Every - EVERY - f***ing time i want to get new players to HoN, they ALWAYS ask me this first: "Does HoN have bots for practice and playing with? No? Too bad, i'll stay with Dota/LoL/Dota 2 then." Frankly, i'm getting sick and tired of finding excuses for this; if you'll now also derp up the f2p system, i'll be done for good; sry.