I don't think it's the best option, but it's an improvement.
I feel that the current system is better than this one.
as mentioned befor, great idea. just add 10 rotating heroes. so 30 static and 10 rotating, what u can do too is get some sord of hero token for like 50 silver coins in wich u can try a hero for 2 days or something. then u can also get rid of the rotating.
I do not want to play with these F2P accounts. I want to play with people that value the game and value their account ownership. I avoid AP like the plague because of people saying "I don't care if we lose, I don't care if I get banned, I just want to make your game miserable because I think its funny and I have pent up anger issues." This seems to be a common trend with F2P accounts since they have no time or money invested into their play. Now you're telling me these players will saturate all game modes? If this is done, I would like to motion that the requirement for verified accounts is raised so that players much work harder to play with dedicated players who want quality games.
If they finally do it like this, they will regret it in the same way they regretted not going F2P from the start. No new player will pick Hon over Dota 2 when that game is offering all the heroes for free.
I hope not, but this game might stagnate heavily if they don't do this change properly.
Non-verified and no stats games people will act like jerks and ruin the game. But after playing 40-50+ games and getting verified people will, most of the time, try to take the game seriously. Do you honestly believe the trolls are sitting there playing 50 games thinking to themselves "hehehe I can't wait to get verified to I can ruin those legacy players games!" Using F2P players as a scapegoat is lying to yourself, what you are experiencing and this "common trend" with F2P accounts is a common trend that applies to the majority of the HoN community despite whatever account status they have.
OnT: 20+10 rotational so they get to try out new heroes. Like other said 30 static heroes will make games very generic and boring
Last edited by Hoodman; 04-24-2012 at 05:55 PM.
Rotation forced me to learn and try new heroes, instead of sticking on the same ones over and over. I think a static pool + rotation pool would be the best.
Take a look at my midwars modes suggestion! Vote and post!
Very good to hear that!
But I do agree from above players that some rotation is necessary, maybe like 10?
And I think upgrade-to-legacy will be a very good option for those player who want to have a better gaming experience.
I like it, but I'm going to echo what I'm seeing from the rest of the posts that it probably should be part static and part rotating or F2P players will get bored and have no opportunity to try heroes out before they buy (nothing to get them interested in a hero other than fighting against it, and easy for them to get a bad taste in their mouth after a purchase when they buy something they haven't tested and it plays in a way they don't like).
Also, I have to give you a dirty glare for the consideration of Upgrade-to-Legacy. Just no. A subscription model, maybe. A bundle in the shop that contains all current non-EA heroes for a notable discount over individual prices, yes please.
Otherwise, it looks good! Opening up the rest of the game modes, removing tokens/passes, and giving F2P accounts a base to start with are all very positive changes.
i agree with the above posters.
20 static and 10 rotating would probably be better for everyone.
Vote for my suggestion!
-A Simple Change To The Buddy List- Now Popular! 248 Yes - 9 No
-Hate Leavers in No Stats 'No Leavers' Games?- Now Popular!
-Suggestion to help Popular Suggestions being heard by S2- Now Popular!
Just throwing this out there :
I think a better option would be 21 static and 9 rotation. That way, you can have 7 of each attribute initially. And 3 of each in rotation. Instead of having a weird number of each attribute. (While I understand that attribute is not the most important factor (role being mostly independent of attribute), but the fact remains it is the best way for a new player to differentiate what heroes do.)
20 static + 10 rotation also went through my head. Unless you willing to up it to 40 heroes, 30 static 10 rotation.
Custom Zombie Survival Map for HoN
I have to chip in like everyone else and say the 20/10 idea sounds better.
Despite what they would have you believe, HoN forum-goers are indeed just a vocal minority, <1700 mmr and more susceptible to confirmation bias than most normal human beings...
MIA=Missing in Action.
HoN is not DotA; and one extra key-press won't kill you
And Legacies still get that discount on EA. 350 for EA is very nice, considering F2Ps have to pay 500.
Forum Moderators are not S2 Games employees. My posts in no way represent the view of S2 Games or any of its staff.
Please use the report post function to have me review a post that you believe is breaking the Forum Rules.
Check the Sticky Threads for additional information on this sub-forum and the Announcement Threads for more information about Heroes of Newerth as a whole!
Training Grounds Moderator | RCT Member | Support/Ranged Semi-Carry/Suicide Ringer For 1700-1800+ Scrims | Cupcake Baker ☆彡
I like the 20 fixed and 10 rotating heroes idea.
I got a question: my cousin bought the complete pool at the last U$s10 sale, what's gonna get him in refund? gold coins? silver coins? paypal money?
Good move anyway, add this, forget about IP-Blocking and i will never stop playing HoN :P
Not a bad idea, but I really do think that 20 default heroes + 10 rotation would be a lot better!
These were my thoughts exactly. People need a reason to buy more heroes, and if they don't get to try first I feel they'll be less likely to purchase. I like the idea of having a solid starting line-up, and adding a few rotators will bring more variety to the game.
I remember back in the day when I used to play LoL I'd be SO excited to get to try out a hero I'd been eyeing, and finding afterwards that you really love that hero (Kog) makes it incredibly easy to buy them.
However, "blindly" buying a hero because you like their concept, but then discovering you actually can't stand the way they handle (Twitch) is a huge downer, and makes you reluctant to want to buy anything more.
I am in disagreement with the 'rotation' that others are mentioning for the following reasons.
1) Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? If there's X static and Y rotating heroes then many F2P will not consider spending gold coins on anything, thus not contributing to the game's business model.
2) It will ruin games. If you look at my initial post you'll notice I said to please consider not allowing hard carries, heroes that rely on portal key or "Press R to win" heroes (Swiftblade, Deadwood, Moonqueen...) to the F2P list. Push more supportive roles for new players.
Why is number 2 important? As a support you learn to place wards, counter enemy wards, map awareness, last hitting, denying and many other lessons NEEDED to survive in this game. Allowing a F2P to come to this game and directly pick a hard carry is a MASSIVE disservice to that player. It HURTS that F2P's gameplay and breeds a community of people who don't understand the basics of the game.
I also concur with the other Legacy players. Don't give an OTB Legacy. This isn't an "OMG I am special!" but rather a simple point that is our REWARD per Maliken for supporting the game up to the point it went F2P. It would be akin to beta testers getting a beta test badge then later allowing everyone to have that badge. The ability to bundle all current heroes sounds great though. If that happens then silver coins could easily be used to purchase future heroes or....they could pay GOLD coins like the rest of us.
We should have this flag added.
I think there's still a lot that needs to be done to fix this issue. A lot of people are suggesting the 20/10 split between static/rotating heroes and that idea seems fine on paper but I feel there could still be an improvement. What would be nice and ultimately the most welcoming to newcomers I believe is to, yes, have the 20/10 split and rotate every 2 weeks or so, but also to change the ratios for earning new silver. This really has been bugging me and even though I have only been playing since the winter holiday $10 bundle deal, I feel like I have very little reason to continue playing matchmaking to try and get silver to unlock a new hero because quite frankly it takes too long.
Let's be optimistic for a second here and ignore the fact that legacy players get more silver per game and also pay less gold for EA Heroes. If I am a FTP player and I want to unlock a hero that JUST recently became available to the public, it is going to cost me 850 silver. Each win on matchmaking gets me a whopping 6 silver coins. So let's say I decide to play 10 games a day, and I happen to be in a 5 man premade, AND we win every game because we are just that good.
Game 1: 6 (win) + 4 (first of day) + 0 (consecutive) + 2 (social bonus) = 12
Game 2: 6 (win) + 0 (first of day) + 1 (consecutive) + 2 (social bonus) = 9
Game 3: 6 (win) + 0 (first of day) + 2 (consecutive) + 2 (social bonus) = 10
Game 4: 6 (win) + 0 (first of day) + 3 (consecutive) + 2 (social bonus) = 11
Game 5: 6 (win) + 0 (first of day) + 4 (consecutive) + 2 (social bonus) = 12
Game 6: 6 (win) + 0 (first of day) + 5 (consecutive) + 2 (social bonus) = 13
Game 7: 6 (win) + 0 (first of day) + 6 (consecutive) + 2 (social bonus) = 14
Game 8: 6 (win) + 0 (first of day) + 6 (consecutive) + 2 (social bonus) = 14
Game 9: 6 (win) + 0 (first of day) + 6 (consecutive) + 2 (social bonus) = 14
Game 10: 6 (win) + 0 (first of day) + 6 (consecutive) + 2 (social bonus) = 14
That means after a single day of being a total badass I would have 123 silver. I would need to play for a week straight, 10 games a day, and win every single time with a complete team of friends in order to unlock a new hero. Let's look at it from the complete opposite side of the perspective. You play 10 games a day, win the last one but no other games, and you play by yourself for all the games.
Game 1: 4 (loss) + 0 (first of day) + 0 (consecutive) + 0 (social bonus) = 4
Game 2: 4 (loss) + 0 (first of day) + 1 (consecutive) + 0 (social bonus) = 5
Game 3: 4 (loss) + 0 (first of day) + 1 (consecutive) + 0 (social bonus) = 5
Game 4: 4 (loss) + 0 (first of day) + 1 (consecutive) + 0 (social bonus) = 5
Game 5: 4 (loss) + 0 (first of day) + 1 (consecutive) + 0 (social bonus) = 5
Game 6: 4 (loss) + 0 (first of day) + 1 (consecutive) + 0 (social bonus) = 5
Game 7: 4 (loss) + 0 (first of day) + 1 (consecutive) + 0 (social bonus) = 5
Game 8: 4 (loss) + 0 (first of day) + 1 (consecutive) + 0 (social bonus) = 5
Game 9: 4 (loss) + 0 (first of day) + 1 (consecutive) + 0 (social bonus) = 5
Game 10: 6 (win) + 4 (first of day) + 6 (consecutive) + 0 (social bonus) = 16
The total for this player is 60 silver by the end of the day (almost half). So to unlock a new hero you would need to play for 2 weeks total in order to unlock a hero worth 850 silver.
I understand that you want to reward the more skilled players by letting them unlock more in the game, but I feel like these ratios are really skewed. Remember this is saying that people have enough time in their lives to play TEN GAMES A DAY. I don't know what it's like for the rest of the community but I'd say a typical game is between 35-50 minutes long...ten games a day is basically a full time job. What realistically ends up happening is it takes the more skilled players about 2-3 weeks to unlock someone new, and the incompetent players a month to two months (assuming they still want to be bogged down playing someone they don't enjoy). In my opinion, fix the ratios for silver and then we can discuss what needs to happen with rotating / static heroes.
Last edited by MCmaniacDBR; 04-29-2012 at 06:50 PM. Reason: Screwed up some of the number calculations. Fixed now.
At risk of sounding offensive I must say I believe S2 is completely ripping off their f2p player base with the money transactions, under this model and unless theres some sort of speciall offer, to get a f2p account to have all the hero pool could take well over 200$ ... are you kidding me? it's intriguing to me how this huge aspect of the game it's so easily overlooked.
Also wtf is going on with the alt avatars it seems that it has become a fashion that any new alt will be 3000 silver even when a lot of them have differences in gold coin cost, again... wtf? I mean I understand you guys @ s2 are in it for the money, no shame in that but when you start popping out avatars like on a weekly basis (sometimes more than one) and they are all "premium" priced even when there are ones that don't change voice or skill animations then the players stop thinking about you profiting but rather 'greed'.
Personally I haven't bought anything with gold that wasn't on sale and while that's good and whatnot the 3000 silver for everything it's simply an outrage and mock of f2p players, they have to pay for heores (some of them are over 500+ silver) and if they want to get some alts like say... 3? thats 9000 silver coins (because seriously pple just want the new ones) have you calculated how much a healty player would have to play to get 9000 silver coins? my guess. NOT EVER.
It seems to me like the silver coin system is there so you can get frustrated and end up buying gold(happened onces to me, got a 40$ gold pack) wich may work but it's still cheesy and makes players like me refrain from even thinking about gold coins again. Also, why is it that players cannot gift gold coins/alt avatars?
rant off. :/
Last edited by deathz0r; 04-24-2012 at 07:17 PM.