Oh Look. It's a fish!

[punktastic]

I have just shifted my focus from Behemoth to Myrmidon and I wanna get some really good tips both itemwise and skillwise.

I just take a level in Weed Field at the start and max Carp and Wave...taking Evolution at 6, 11 and 16. The idea basically is to rush into with Wave, do Evolution and hit them like crazy....if they die yayyyyyy if they don't and I get de-evolutioned then I send Carp their wave...followed my Weedfield. Good or not?

I avoid leveling Field early on cuz i miss the enemy way too much.

Item wise Elder and Shrunken are really good...but I'm thinking of building a Brutilizer on him. I really don't think the stun would add into the splash BUT a perma stun to the target means they can't do anything...mostly. Good idea?

[PrestonLee]

W->Q should be a GUARANTEED weed field hit every time, just wait til the Carp is about to hit target and then weed field.. because of this, I see no reason not to level Q+W first (with a point in E and ult whenever you feel) as it is a very dependable high damage stun burst combo on low cooldown.

I can see maxing E early having its uses with other magic damage burst heroes, and yes maxing that E does synergize with your ulti quite nicely though.

I'm not quite sure if you're trying to use Myrmidon as a semi-carry (seems like it), but I personally wouldn't do an Elder and Shrunken build at all even if I was. and IF I was taking a more semi-carry route, maxing Q (weed field) early is a given because it helps you farm/push creepwaves early on, as well as allowing you to nuke down neutral stacks.

Anyway, as far as I know the standard build is 4/4/1/2 and basing your early game off the pretty big burst damage burst damage on low cooldowns, I personally wouldn't depend on the ultimate for damage at all until later game when your ulti is at a higher level (which a much more dependable slow) and you have more attack speed to actually utilize the damage output.

It really depends on what you're aiming to play Myrmidon as (support or semicarry?); people will probably put you down for building her as a semicarry as she has horrible range and carrying potential, and building her as support is COMPLETELY different than building her with farm/semi-carry potential (aka stomping lower bracket games with her).


edit:
Item pickups

If you're doing a support/roaming-ganker build: (core) ( if your team needs it) -> (supportive luxury/stats) /// -> (higher-tier luxury) ////// is a very loose item guide that you could follow, of course with your wards 's.

If you're looking more for a semi-carry/low-tier bracket stomping build then is very good for boots for the attack speed bonus you get for your ult, but I wouldn't discount the option either as it can help you phase through targets as you turn melee and also it gives you all-around better mobility for ganking. I'd still pickup one of these /// because they are cheap and very useful, but you could skip those and rush for regen+survivability, or work up to for big survivability and a lot of extra slow (it makes your carp apply a slow as well). Then still //// as your next pickups. You can finish off with for DPS but I would refrain from doing so til you got at least Hellflower or Sheep first.

I'm personally not a fan of on her at all, I really feel it's a big waste of gold and she shouldn't really be tanking any damage in the first place anyway or you're doing it wrong. If you really need the extra survivability that's what the is for for me. Just my opinion though.

Late game luxuries that I do like:
is sheep, if I have to explain this I don't even. Unlimited mana, good stats, good disable is good disable.
this item is Myrmidon's holy grail, silence on your desired target to rape, +20% damage taken for your ultimate to do BIG damage, unlimited mana for spamming your skills, and a bunch of attack speed for your ult? Sold. Always consider this, it's so good on her and the buildup is easy and gets rid of her mana problems while building the parts for it.
wouldn't consider this over the other two most of the time, but it is situationally great; grab it if you need armor, and it works very great in combination with Shrunken for keeping you alive while jumping into a teamfight with waveform and slowing everyone.
if you're gonna be diving into a shitload of people a lot this is an obvious vs certain lineups. If I can get away without it though then I'll try to.
this thing is crazy good on Myrmidon if you can bare with learning how to use it and a bit of extra micro. Synergizes with all her stuns/slows, gives a movement speed aura boost, mana burn, and counter-warding/invis.
yeah waveform gives negative magic armor, but this is still good for the cooldown decreases on both your items and skills, and it gives some decent mana regen/attack speed.
expensive, but if you're semi-carrying/stomping it's big survivability and great slow. If I wanted survivability I'd rather spend 2200 on an Icebrand than Hotbl.

Things that can work but I don't like:
I wouldn't ever get this unless I'm doing a poorman's build and want some cheap attack speed; still it has it's (limited) uses though. Don't get me wrong, I actually like picking this up on certain heroes, just not Myrmidon
rather get anything above first, I'd only pick this up if I needed a creep clearing ability (I got raxed or something), but it does synergize somewhat with waveform negative magic armor, and gives nice attack speed. Just expensive and imho not worth it most of the time.
works well with Spellshards/Harkons for stomping bads
lol, I get it sometimes when I'm trolling, also works well with Spellshards/Harkons
can work great in casual mode, or as final luxury, but wow if you manage to afford this in a normal game without jeapordizing your team

..got tired of typing, maybe I'll update it later

"4/4/1/2" refers to skills "Q/W/E/R" respectively, as in I would put 1 in waveform and max his two nukes first.

[punktastic]

I'm thinking of going the ganker route...keeping the wards up though. And '4/4/1/2'?

I didn't get what you meant by that. Also are spellshards a viable pickup for him?

[Akai_Baraue]

I'm thinking of going the ganker route...keeping the wards up though. And '4/4/1/2'?

I didn't get what you meant by that.

It's commonly used way to tell people the levels of different skills, where each number corresponds to an ability. This one means the following:
4 points in Skill 1 (Q)
4 points in Skill 2 (W)
1 point in Skill 3 (E)
2 points in Skill 4 (R)
It works the same way for all other heroes, if I'm not much mistaken.

With regards to the Spellshards question, I can't help you, as I've never played Myrmidon.

[PrestonLee]

Spellshards is good because it reduces his already low cooldowns, making them even more spammable, while also not having to rely as much on the negative armor from waveform. It also gives decent mana regen and attack speed (Arcana) and has a buildup that isn't too taxing for a support-oriented hero.

In general it's better to prioritize pick up more utility-based pickups for your team instead (Astro, Tablet, Nomes, Stormspirit, etc. or Hellflower, Sheep, Frostfield, Puzzlebox etc.). but Spellshards is a nice addition on top of those items because it lowers their cooldowns, as well as your skill cooldowns and helps you cut through heroes that have magic armor.

[[ToX]TBones]

Don't listen to PrestonLee. he is a total noob trash.

[PrestonLee]

hahahahahaha

i'm pretty sad we remade that i wanted to see how that mid played out, was pretty sure i was gonna rape you

[[TGCH]Devilsnight]

W->Q should be a GUARANTEED weed field hit every time, just wait til the Carp is about to hit target and then weed field..

I think you are being optimistic. Might be a guaranteed hit every time against noobs, but in reality the weedfield doesn't have that large radius to the sides so unless you hit it perfectly then most of the time people will holding position for a splitsecond to avoid the knockdown and be able to walk to the side.
Or they could turn drastically moments before it hits, making it even more difficult to hit the weedfield spot on and then briefly hold and move. The casttime for the weedfield can be beaten by quick reactions so unless you're dead on with it and the hero pursued moves slow or is already stunned it's really not that reliable.

[PrestonLee]

I think you are being optimistic. Might be a guaranteed hit every time against noobs, but in reality the weedfield doesn't have that large radius to the sides so unless you hit it perfectly then people will most of the times people will holding position for a splitsecond to avoid the knockdown and then walk to the side.
Or they could turn drastically moments before it hits and then hold position. The casttime for the weedfield can be beaten by quick reactions unless you're dead on with it and the hero pursued moves slow or is already stunned.

Well, do you suggest I be pessimistic? What would your thoughts about build order be then? Skipping leveling Q? My point wasn't so much that it's a guaranteed hit, but rather that you SHOULD be leveling Q early on (which the OP mentions he leaves it at 1 because he misses it often) because if you're using it correctly there isn't much reason to skip leveling it.

With that said, You as the Myrmidon can also predict your target's reaction to your carp and place your Weed field based on where you think they will be.. but for the most part if you time your weed field correctly, it SHOULD hit the moment RIGHT AFTER your carp hits; if this wasn't so then it wasn't so much that they dodged it, but rather you timed it incorrectly (but yeah, **** happens). Of course, if they have a disjoint or escape mech then this obviously doesn't apply

Lastly, it's rare that you would sensibly pick Myrmidon in a lineup that didn't have combo stuns (or slows), so I really don't see any reason to skip leveling Q because you tend to miss it.

[DumLao]

theres lots of ways to build myrm, my favorite way is to go mid and get 1 in each stun and max your swim first!
so when u hit lvl 6, transform, swim on him making sure to actually slow him and then auto the guy to death
at this point ull be smashing him and he will cry

[DeepWaters]

I dont know why to build a hero with such terrible stats as anything else but a ganker support. Early game i buy flying courier, ward, runes, ring of protection and maybe a totem. Then i rush striders and roam - BECAUSE THATS WHAT YOURE GOOD FOR. A myrmidon lvl 2-3 is one of the strongest heroes in the game. Dont try a semi carry - pick a torturer for that. When u play myrmidon, you play to roam and to kill. Your purpose is to go to every lane your enemies pushed and gank it. If there is a jungler - i cant think of any better hero than myrm to make his life miserable.

Ofcourse you will buy all the wards(cant be a situation where you dont buy every ward that is available) and all the counterwards. For mana and hp youre gonna get powersupply and ROT(which is probably the second best OP item after PS). You may say "but wait deep - isnt buying wards expensive?" Well you get a refund of 250g everytime you score a kill using the wards, so no. Its a great investment.

Your core is
this. If youve succeeded in farming the gold for steamboots or EP - youre doing it wrong. Make the enemies lose gold - not you gain some. Contrary to popular belief, ganking before lvl 6 is very good if done correctly and should be your prime goal rather than farming in lane or babysitting - again, there are better heroes for that.

Lategame you can try going for Hex. Youre not supposed to do damage - youre supposed to disable,gank and support.



P.S: If you cant arrow dont valk, if you cant hook dont dev, and if you cant weed field for the love of god dont take myrmidon.

[[TGCH]Devilsnight]

Well, do you suggest I be pessimistic? What would your thoughts about build order be then? Skipping leveling Q? My point wasn't so much that it's a guaranteed hit, but rather that you SHOULD be leveling Q early on (which the OP mentions he leaves it at 1 because he misses it often) because if you're using it correctly there isn't much reason to skip leveling it.

Nah, pessimism is good but only in small quantities :P And I agree with you.

[Sandtrap]

@Preston. The skillbuild you suggest is correct (optionally you can delay the ulti a bit to max carp quicker, I usually prefer not to). Vs a good player carp->field is in no way a guaranteed hit every time, even if they have somewhat low ms. This obviously depends on terrain and positioning aswell, but a good player will dodge carp->field more often than not without any initiating stun/slow even if it's placed perfectly (especially once boots are picked up). I would also like to point out that spellshards is extremly bad on myrmidon, his spells simply doesn't have the damage to warrant this pickup at all and you should never pick this up over something like a tablet, stormspirit, hellflower or sheep. Even if you want to play a "carry myrm" (him soloing sidelane is actually somewhat viable) tablet, sheep and possibly even demonic are far superior pickups. I repeat NEVER get spellshards on myrm, ever.

[Nimiz]

theres lots of ways to build myrm, my favorite way is to go mid and get 1 in each stun and max your swim first!
so when u hit lvl 6, transform, swim on him making sure to actually slow him and then auto the guy to death
at this point ull be smashing him and he will cry

intresting....

anyone else got some oppinions on this? never tried setup before...

[PrestonLee]

intresting....

anyone else got some oppinions on this? never tried setup before...

It's a pubstomp build, it can be fun but not more reliable than just maxing nukes first. It's like going max passive on pyro and only 1 on Q and W at first.. Yeah it can work fine but it's not the most efficient way to play him.

If anything though, that build would work nicely in combination with other magic burst damage heroes (allied pyro/Midas/pebbles/revenant etc), you'd give your team a nice slow and a bunch of negative armor to work with. The drawback though is you're much more reliant on waiting for your ultimate cooldowns early on (because myrm is very squishy) instead of just relying on your very low cooldown burst stuns for damage, which again is not an efficient way of playing this hero.

Lastly, good luck I have no idea how you'd win mid lane with a 1/1/4 build with myrm vs anyone NOT retarded, until myrm gets ult he's got basically nothing over the other hero except nice escape mechanisms at least with maxing nukes you'd be able to rune control/farm and harass, but a 1/1/4/1 build is basically like throwing myrm in a suicide lane mid lol (which is horribly unnecessary and will just basically cause your average mid-stomp player to get a free lane win)