[2.5.20] Hellbringer

[[Val]Mist_au]

I think he would be solid if they removed the nerf on deathboil and added a little bit more AOE to life void, or mabye heal allies for a percentage of the damage the enemies take if they are both inside the life void cast, could be OP but its something S2 should look at. Would definetely make him fill a support role if this would occur.

[Urith]

Maybe the SotM effect could be some kind of huge aura that is big enough to not just walk away from, forcing the enemy team to either deal with malphas or let the aura stay on them instead of just ignoring him entirely after he gets summoned. I don't like the idea of his ulti just getting used because of the tiny stun. Maybe a -20% damage done debuff to every enemy hero within 2000 range? (Same mechanic Succubus' damage reduction works, it reduces magical damage done as well as physical damage done)

[[Zoff]DaBoolz]

My second idea for SotM efect: Give Malphas Pharao's Hellfire just with a bigger radius.
(like my slow aura idea it forces the enemy team to react on the already casted Malphas)

[Urith]

My second idea for SotM efect: Give Malphas Pharao's Hellfire just with an bigger radius.
(like my slow aura idea it forces the enemy team to react on the already casted Malphas)

I'd support anything that makes Malphas worth more than a tiny AoE stun.

[[SBT]Thuriner]

I'd support anything that makes Malphas worth more than a tiny AoE stun.

The AoE of the stun is probably (one of) the highest in game. Also the cast range is very high.

I'd suggest changes all over the board.

Unholy Shackles:
The slow is really weak early and later in the game where most heroes has their means of escape.
I'd suggest it to also affect casters with a scaling -Cast speed debuff (20 / 30 / 40 / 50 comes to mind).
Also, a static 15 seconds cooldown is pretty long for such a weak single target ability, so perhaps a scaling cooldown would fit in (like 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 seconds).

Death Boil:
This ability is changed from being one of the best lvl 1 harass spells to perhaps the weakest in game.
Changing the ticks from happening every second to every half second would make it harder for anyone to heal in between the ticks.
With the tick change I'd also suggest a static 3 second duration (being 5 ticks with half a second to wait before the first tick) with the starting tick scaling to like 5 / 20 / 35 / 50.
This will have the damage output be 125 / 200 / 275 / 350 (from 125 / 180 / 245 / 320) over 3 seconds.
Having the cooldown scale like the suggestion for Unholy Shackles will prove the ability better paired with Life Void (16 / 14 / 12 / 10 seconds).

Life Void:
I feel the ability is quite strong as it is. A change could be for it to work on Malphas too (working with the buff suggested for Summon Malphas).

Summon Malphas:
I feel Malphas lacks the utility he's meant to have. A suggestion could be for him to absorb 30 / 40 / 50 % of the damage dealt to Hellbringer, but at the same time having the Maximum HP and HP Regeneration scale with the level of Hellbringer (from the level of the ultimate) - The suggestion could be {200+100*Level} as HP and {10+1*Level} as HP Regeneration (Being 800 HP/16 HP Reg at level 6, 1300 HP/21 HP Reg at level 11, 1800 HP/26 HP Reg at level 16, and 2700 HP/35 HP Reg at level 25).

Other than the suggestions in the spoiler, I'd like to say that his tankiness scales really bad against all the bursting enemies. His role is easily overlooked by other heroes doing it much better.

[Urith]

The AoE of the stun is probably (one of) the highest in game. Also the cast range is very high.

I'd suggest changes all over the board.

I know the range of the stun is huge, I was talking about the duration of the stun. The stun might be good, but I would like to see Malphas being more than what he is today. Even at the early levels his auto attacks are close to useless, this is because of the long attack animation, low attackspeed, low movement speed and the low attack damage (considering the three other factors I mentioned). His damage over time cloak & auto attack dot is barely worth mentioning. The breath also scales ridiculously bad, to the point whether you aren't sure whether the breath hit or not. The enemy needs some kind of reason to not just ignore him entirely.

[Lethe]

they killed off a lot of his potential when they nerfed boil, especially when compounded with his base armor and str gain nerfs.

But at least S2 made death boil more mana-friendly recently. That's a step in a good direction

[[IaF]Skyve]

Why does Unholy Shackles need buffing? 5 Full seconds of -ms/as isn't enough? These numbers are static and don't decrease over time. Which I always thought made it really strong. You literally cripple someone completely if it isn't purged/removed.

It is decent, but primarily after you put more points into it. I could also see the manacost getting reduced to 60 on all levels, making it "friendlier" for a support hero mana pool to work with (if him being used as a support is what we want out of the hero).
I wonder if the -AS part of the ability is only severely underrated or really too weak to have a noticeable impact. Maybe that is something that could also be looked at. Overall it is a much stronger ability than most people want to give it credit for, but with only 1 point in it it isn't exactly one of the strongest slows in the game.

[Urith]

It is decent, but primarily after you put more points into it. I could also see the manacost getting reduced to 60 on all levels, making it "friendlier" for a support hero mana pool to work with (if him being used as a support is what we want out of the hero).
I wonder if the -AS part of the ability is only severely underrated or really too weak to have a noticeable impact. Maybe that is something that could also be looked at. Overall it is a much stronger ability than most people want to give it credit for, but with only 1 point in it it isn't exactly one of the strongest slows in the game.

When life drain takes priority (+ magic armor reduction) over a slow you know it scales badly and has barely any uses other than maybe chasing a single hero down, it won't do much when the team fight has erupted. It needs to either scale better, affect more units, have a longer duration or add something more than a petty single target slow (a 0,15 sec stun every 1 sec for example 2/3/4/5 stuns per rank). The attack speed slow doesn't scale well at all and I see no reason why it shouldn't be % based instead of point based.

[[TECH]Gorb]

I would like to remind people of Ekamo's opening post:

Remember that if you are going to discuss his suggestions, the why's are much more important than the what's.
Stay on topic, be civil, follow the rules.

Please avoid posting outright suggestions and instead debate the specifics of why certain abilities may need improvements (regardless of what the improvements) may be.

[[ScBr]MadPsycho]

Original Hellbringer was god-tier because of the combination of Life Void and Barbed Armor. Barbed Armor used to reflect 100% of the damage, and combine that with the 40% lifesteal from Life Void Hellbringer was damn near immortal. The combo was too strong, and I suspect it was one of the reasons that Barbed Armor got dropped down to dealing 80% damage. Life Void was also too strong considering it has a large AoE. Reducing the numbers of Life Void was the right way to go. Both those changes directly reduced Hellbringer's survivability.

Then they went and nerfed his Death Boil to hell and back. It was definitely strong in the laning phase as a harass, perhaps too strong. When S2 realized they nerfed it too much they cut back on its mana cost. It's in more or less a decent place where it is. Could be better, but I think Unholy Shackles needs the most work. Giving Hellbringer reason to pick up Unholy Shackles over Life Void or even Death Boil would go a long way to balancing the hero, giving him some decent ability as a roaming ganker. I think that would be a step in the right direction since his Death Boil is nowhere near the lane controlling tool that it was. An alternative to this would be to up the bounces on his Death Boil, giving him back his harassing ability in lane.

[[999]colondee]

I agree fully. Please improve Q and make his abilities work a little faster so that he can be viable in a quick-paced game against snowballing enemies. Something should be boosted about this hero for sure. Even the ultimate is situational and not very useful for pubs except for pushing.

[Synchronize]

i like how your proposals fit to 'Hellbringer doesn´t need huge buffs to become viable in public and seen more often in competitive.'

however right now hellbringer only brings hell to his owner.

[[AZ]LoLPlaya_]

The second least played hero in the game.

[[LsE]Hsssh]

From what i remember he never was "popular". After all he is not a carry, does not have some high damage nukes and requires some micro with Malphas. All these traits are not liked by usual pub player.

[[IaF]Skyve]

Just a wild idea:

What if his Life Void was 30% on all levels?

It used to be 50% on all of them way, way back, which obviously was too much. Since then it has been nerfed to require multiple points into it to scale the health gain up, maxing out at 40% for a while, and after the last nerfs it went down to 30% max.
With his DoT nerfed now however, I think upping it again might not create the same problems as before (since there's overall less health for him to gain, and less harass to come out).

What this also would do would be to free up skill points, because lvl1 Live Void would be enough to decently sustain his health in lane for a while. With that he can max his Q early on, which should enable him to be a bit more active and aggressive.

That at least should return him to being a viable solo hero. Shouldn't affect his supporting too much though.

[[f13]`11411181]

misread since no quote. my bad.

[KingIsRey]

30% at all levels of Life Void will be too much since it is usuable on enemy creeps. HB will sustain his HP too well then as you can use lvl 1 Life Void on enemy creeps at tower or just before your lane ally nukes a creep wave to heal massive amounts (which I feel he can already do fair enough with current 15% at lvl 1). The need for added levels to Life Void is acceptable as every level increases the debuff duration and increases the minus magic armor debuff.

Q/Unholy shackles should be the one-point skill wonder. Maybe a buff to 30% mvsp slow at lvl 1 so HB can actually set up kills in-lane like PR and Glacius can. You can walk off a 20% mvsp slow.

[embrance]

Death Boil In my opinion is too short in duration.What I mean:Its Death..BOIL.I would keep the ticks as they are or even extend them to a higher duration of time.So for example if it lasts 10 seconds,make it 15.This will essentialy negate HP reg in a teamfight and possibly kill a fleeing hero.At level 4 it would do about...400 or so damage,but it iwll need TIME t get to this number.So it could be an interesting experiment.

As for his utli,I would rather have it be target and then target a hero and that hero would be in a constant Taunty effect a la Legionaire and forced to fight Maphas.
So keep the stun and forced ONE opponent to fight Maphas.
SOTM effect:Make Maphas permanent and add some buff across the board.More HP,Mana,Damage etc.
He dies too easily.

[foxmindedguy]

I second Skyve's idea, I think it's worth a try.

Although before all else, they should plainly reduce his cast times and see how he feels in the SBT. As giving him the Torturer treatment would not hurt.