Hag a carry?

[[TGCH]Devilsnight]

Having a BAT that is lower than normal by a factor of x (for magebane this is 1.7/1.45 = 1.172) means your (uninterrupted) dps is greater by a factor of x than a "normal" hero with the same attributes.
This is actually much stronger than things like base damage increase by the same %.
It stacks with all other forms of dps boosts - armor reduction, IAS, +AD, crits, procs, whatever.

I know about magebanes BAT, its pretty obvious ingame. But that still doesn't change the fact that everyones BAT scales, and that people tend to define hard carries as someone with scaling abilities. In which case all heroes are hard carries if you go by that.

[[Mana]Farosarg]

With that said, hag only carries if she snowballs well and has a good advantage over the other players. If some hag is feeding on your team and is 4 levels below everyone else with no items you can laugh when he says he can carry.

Could be said about every other carry. Hag can also recover somewhat well from a bad laning phase (but it hurts the area where she shines which is the mid-game.)

[Antimodus]

I know about magebanes BAT, its pretty obvious ingame. But that still doesn't change the fact that everyones BAT scales, and that people tend to define hard carries as someone with scaling abilities. In which case all heroes are hard carries if you go by that.

No they aren't, you didn't understand. Nobody's BAT scales, BAT is a constant. All I said is that having a lower than normal BAT is a very effective form of dps boost. It scales better than a fixed +AS bonus.

[[TGCH]Devilsnight]

No they aren't, you didn't understand. Nobody's BAT scales, BAT is a constant. All I said is that having a lower than normal BAT is a very effective form of dps boost. It scales better than a fixed +AS bonus.

Yes it is constant, I have seen charts of it like here http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/ar...p/t-20700.html and didn't say it wasn't. I said it scaled with IAS. That with a low BAT and IAS you will attack faster because the time interval reduces. But everyone scales then, if only poorer with higher BAT.

But you know, all that BAT talk matters nothing. Because the deal here is that I was are talking about what defined a hard carry, and that people tend to say it is about scaling abilities. I mentioned Magebane didn't have any particular good ones compared to the other hard carries, and so questioned peoples definition. His BAT is good but that isn't a scaling ability per say. And I compared that to Hag who doesn't have any scaling abilities (other than a percentage slow) but still qualifies as a carry, if only semi, referring back to the OP asking whether hag was a carry.

So can we leave this alone and just conclude that a carry is more than just scaling abilities?
Getting tired of you arguing with me on something we both agree on, but avoiding the topic. Someone else can finish it or leave it dead.

[Antimodus]

His BAT is good but that isn't a scaling ability per say

Why??
why is a good BAT any different than a "+30% base damage" skill?

[Sachy]

[[TGCH]Devilsnight]

I was are talking about what defined a hard carry, and that people tend to say it is about scaling abilities. I mentioned Magebane didn't have any particular good ones compared to the other hard carries, and so questioned peoples definition.
...
Getting tired of you arguing with me on something we both agree on, but avoiding the topic. Someone else can finish it or leave it dead.

Why??
why is a good BAT any different than a "+30% base damage" skill?

[/DISCUSION]

[leka`_]

Hag is a semicarry that can snowball due to insane rune control and early game burst, so you could posibbly carry a game due to your level/item advantage, but in a game where you are don't have the good farm, you can't really carry.

[Wuaschtsemme]

Good agi gain + perfect positioning + great farming tools + snowball + sheep/hf effects = carry if you´re able to maintain a good presence in the game.