[2.5.19] Corrupted Disciple

[Salem1]

If you don't want to debate theoreticals, then don't present your points based on them. If you want people to accept your conclusions, they also need to agree with the path you've taken. And like myself and other people have pointed out - you still get the best benefits of Conduit even when you can't put it on their carry hero, but only another.

No, it's not that simple, it's one thing to argue about variables and situations and one thing to point out stuff like lots of heroes having things that break conduit. Yes the drain gives you the same amount of damage no matter which hero you put it on but there are better and worse targets and it's still unreliable because so many things can break it including death, moving away and loads of spells. Can we leave it there? I don't want to keep arguing about pointless trivia when the issue I'm trying to get at is very clear.

What? CD needs looking at? A superb nuke. Insane mobility. Damage buffer. An ultimate not to be underestimated. If you can't figure out when and where to place and use conduit, then that's just a level of play. He's just off the meta wagon. There's safer easier picks out there that can do the job with far less ability

With nearly 200 games played I'd say I know when and where to place conduit. That he's off the meta wagon, that there's safer and easier picks that do the job with far less ability (strange choice of word - ability?) is what I'm trying to say. Many other heroes suffer from the same problems and I want to describe how CD is affected.

[Th3Vo1D]

I see CD more like last pick material.
Yes he is unpredictable in AP, but the game isn't balanced around pub play.

If the enemy team doesn't pick up much heroes with superior disables/ ports or your team can disable quite decently (e.g. Pollywog Priest, Witch Slayer) you can take him and get a reliable 3+ conduit at the least.

He is a strong anti-carry with carry potential with a skill set that synergizes well with itself and other physical damage / disable lineups.

The hero is fine, just underrated or picked in wrong teams.

[[E]Eldest]

I don't see anything wrong with CD. Epic hero, builds tank items and has damage like a hard carry. Early game gank on CD 1vs2? CD pop conduit turn 1vs2 to 1vs1 to 1vs0 gg wp. He needs teamwork to work better and as far as chasing goes, that's what his 3rd ability is for. 3rd + ghost marchers + speed from firebrand anyone?

[[eR]Ekamo]

He is the only hero with no slows or stuns that has consistently been a viable option in HoN.
I think that says a lot about him.

[LegoPirate]

stop playing him by relying on conduit and he will be hugely more useful.

[Ripoff]

He has been picked up plenty in competitive, even in this month. He is for sure not UP or anything.

[[TECH]Gorb]

He is the only hero with no slows or stuns that has consistently been a viable option in HoN.
I think that says a lot about him.

I have to agree with this.

(I'm guessing the ministun doesn't count? )

[[E]Ahimtar]

i feel that he is a little underwhelming, mostly his conduit, i agree with op a bit. but its true, that he has been picked up a lot since far past. interesting, i dont know what to say.

[CrimsonAdder]

I have to agree with this.

(I'm guessing the ministun doesn't count? )

What? CD has no kind of ministun.

[[TECH]Gorb]

The passive doesn't ministun enemies within range on spell cast anymore?

EDIT: ha, he never did; it's an 80% slow. I do enjoy feeling stupid sometimes (the amount I've played CD).

[Mcfancypants]

It sounds like you're upset you can't always get a 10 second conduit on every hero in the game. Sometimes when you're mid there's a ranged hero there, so you have to adjust your skill build. Sometimes you have to get static discharge over conduit because you're against a hag.

Also in dota you can target the ground with the conduit, which makes it go through shrunken head.

http://www.playdota.com/heroes/light...enant#skill319

That'd be a nice buff, but it makes S2 create new code for the game...

[[GM]Cyber_Kun]

More like it is a suggested buff that would do nothing but add an inconstant and arbitrary effect into the game.

[PatoFazQuake]

^This

this is the cause of a lot of the balance problems in the current game. Too many kitchen sink heroes.

Anyway if breaking conduit early isn't such a big issue and it's more the fact that most carries rush a shrunken, why not make conduit physical? It'd still be counterable by void talisman and nullstone, but to a far lesser extent.

Making conduit physical sounds the answer ;D

Or make the same effect as it happens in dota:
"If targeted on the ground, the link will travel in that direction, if an enemy hero comes within 200 range of it during this time, will be linked to Razor."

[[f13]`11411181]

Conduit also doesnt give vision in dota as well, iirc. Who cares.

[[wGCw]Wei2SMITHIE]

I think CD is perfectly fine.

Look at the positives.

• He has a nuke / harass / farming skill
• Can steal / gain 200 damage from heroes / images
• 2^nd skill also gives clear vision
• 3^rd skill is anti caster and makes him very hard to chase down

Plus the fact is last hit is one of the best in the games and makes him ideal of solo rolls in terms of creap kill / denying

All in all none of his skills are underpowered or overpowered, so why would we change that?

I’m actually surprized this thread was allowed, all you’ve done it down talk CD by making other heroes sound stronger.

[[B4WC]FurryTuna]

Wei2Smithie:

Yup I love it when Hammerstorm ults only to find out that I have taken all his damage.

[TheMostHigh]

Could we just give him 525 range? Pwease?

[Khrato]

I had game with CD against MK+WB as a carrys. After the game they had about 250-300 gpm. Mine was 450. Before shrunken we pushed the lanes so hard, even mid rax had to fall. After they took shrunken, we lost. So... Don't say me it's not a problem since MK owned a CD in lategame with 200 less gpm. WB was almost all the time stoppped with devo's ultimate or panda flick/stun ( Panda was in my team ).

Making conduit as a physical or just like they said, target to the ground would be great. That would change enough to say that CD is already a good char.

[[B4WC]vvolfster]

CD relies on his mobility since his attack range isn't that huge and he wants to chase people down with his ult and conduit. This gets problematic when CC is so prevalent nowadays or mobility spells. However, if CD gets his charges on conduit and is able to chase, he dishes out insane dps without any dps gear. He builds tank and does mad damage.

So, yes, he should be able to get countered by CC/mobility spells/SH as he builds nothing for an added 200 Damage potentially. That's nearly a doombringer's worth of damage that you not only get but you STEAL. Enemy heroes can go into negative damage (I have no idea what that does though...heal?). It's a very very POWERFUL tool if CD manages to utilize it. You cannot allow so much power without providing EASY counters for it (as OP stated). It's perfectly well balanced. Working as intended imo.

The problem the OP is facing is that he's picking CD with the wrong teams/against the wrong teams. CD has no CC and so should be picked with teams with a huge amount of CC on demand. CD wants to keep chasing and have longer fights to get max conduit ; so he should not be picked against strong CC teams or heavy nukers.

I wouldn't want conduit to be physical because that just ensures that he will almost ALWAYS be able to counter carries. You'd have to get a nullfire blade against him then if you don't have jeraziah, monarch, electrican on your team (accursed too if i'm not mistaken). Nullfire blade isn't a usual pick up for most carries and will have to make them go out of their way just to ensure that they actually DO damage with their damage items that they spent all game farming. After getting raped by CD for the better part of the early-mid game, I think SH is a great choice to counter conduit. After that point, if CD wants to steal damage, he can always steal it from a support and get some armor against the carry (knowing he won't be able to steal damage from him anymore).

TLDR: CD is okay in my book. Just needs to have teams built around him.

[Salem1]

I actually think conduit going through magic immunity would be way too powerful, at least against melee carries. The thing is, it's one-sided - he demolishes a carry without magic immunity but he is helpless against a carry with magic immunity which makes him unreliable as a carry unless you've managed to outfarm the enemy so much that you don't need conduit anyway. But if I haven't made it clear before I'll make it clear now: I never really thought the problem was with CD. It's with heroes that don't pay for their advantages with any significant downsides and I wanted to show how this affects CD. I'll admit that I should probably have made a thread about that instead - but I still think it's useful to discuss how it affects certain heroes specifically. I still don't think it's quite right that some heroes are much more reliable and fit in with pretty much anything while others don't because I don't see what's good about that.

Also it's true that CD works on teams with a lot of cc. But that's because cc/burst especially in aoe works with anything, you could put any carry together with Tempest + Kraken + Plague Rider and it'd work.