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I understand your point about components being "less efficient", and those cheap items are efficient.Originally Posted by `11411181
I guess as the OP stated, you can only choose platemail in 2 scenarios :
1) You need armour - inefficient as there are many better choices
2) You want to build frostfield plate - in which case 1400 gold for 10 armour isn't a bad price
Seems fine to me.
Eseentially it comes down to using platemail vs two ringmails +recipe cost to make an item easier or harder to get as a buildup.
So if you wanted to make Sol's a bit harder to get you would replace the two ringmails with a platemail and make the recipe cheaper
If someone else provides you with a ROTT aura which is very common, sol's could only effectively give you +6 armor. Platemail does not have an armor aura component. Options for cost efficient 10+ armor stacking in a single slot are actually pretty limited, especially once you consider auras cannot stack and teammates could provide the auras for you.
Platemail is not mutually exclusive with other armor items. You can get both platemail and another armor item for armor stacking. Stacking large amounts of armor in this way can potentially be the most efficient way to spend money for survivability against -armor debuffs, especially with healing. Strength heroes with low starting armor/agi gain are good candidates.
Getting a platemail does not mean you cannot replace the slot with something else lategame. Getting it midgame situationally when you need survivability is perfectly fine.
Void talisman and platemail serve completely different purposes in much the same way shaman's headdress and shrunken_head/BKB do.
Having platemail build into a new strong armor item will create nightmarishly tanky heroes with good buildup to that extra tankiness.
Actually, a notable mention should go to Glowstone and Slayer; both which are extremely efficient for what you pay.
Platemail doesn't need a buff or a change, its a component item and should be kept as such. When have you ever seen a Platemail being stacked just because its a Platemail?
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Sols gives the bearer +9 armour, and your allies +4 (unless you switch to debuff, but then you didnt really need the armour did you ?)
Also getting 10 armour : Plated Greaves + Ringmail (which feeds into Daemonic), 2 x ringmail (10 armour for only 1100) which feeds into a number of items
Helm of the victim + Ringemail (10 armour) which feeds into Shamans, barbed, whispering etc
Also the difference between +10 armour and +5 armour is only around 10% damage reduction.
The only thing going for platemail is that it takes up 1 slot just like Sols. Against it you have .... sell it or build frostfield plate.
Sols gives you +6 armor and your allies +1 if someone has ROTT.
Slot efficiency is incredibly important. The difference between getting 10 armor in 2 slots as opposed to 1 slot is huge.
Plated greaves is another way to stack even more armor. Once again, plated greaves is not mutually exclusive with platemail. You can have BOTH sol's and platemail for a huge potential +19 armor for ~$3500. Whether or not this is a good idea depends entirely on the situation.
The difference between +10 armor and +5 armor depends greatly on your current armor and -armor debuffs. Throwing out a random % without any context is completely worthless. Stacking armor in a very cost efficient way is a situational decision.
Last edited by ApolloFeed; 04-11-2012 at 12:51 AM.
Second time you are assuming that the aura of ROTT(Abysal/Nomes respectively) is not stacking witt the Sols aura, which is just wrong.
Sols + ROTT = 2500 Gold => 5 Armor for you and 7 Armor for your complete team
Question is if it is worth it having Platemail as an Item. Either replace Chainmail+recipe in Daemonic or replace Platemail in FFP(The Halberd-treatment)
^This as far as auras go.
Read the aura descriptions and RoTT specifically states that it only does not stack with other auras which have a basis on RoTT (i.e. Nomes, abyssal).
All it really comes down to is that Platemail suffers from most of the same problems Icon of the Goddess does. They both build into only a single item and both items they build into are mediocre or have the role they are supposed to fill generally better filled by other items. Sure FFP is situationally strong on certain heroes, but generally speaking it's considered a tertiary item at best. I can't think of a single hero that you'd ever want to build FFP on as a first big item, or even a second big item and since Platemail is a component item and is supposed to be combined with others to show it's true potential, it's rarely seen. I'd honestly like to see it combine with another less commonly used item (such as energizer). I think if it was a strong enough item, we'd see it more.
Really the problem isn't with platemail itself. In and of itself it's good for the cost. It was removed from Demonic because S2 wanted to shorten the meta and introduced Sol's and Sol's replaced platemail in the demonic recipe.
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Sols gives you +9 armour (you get the aura too).
But you are right - question is about whether platemail is worth having as an item.
I say no - people vote with their gold - platemail gets purchased rarely (see item usage stats 110th of 121 items) - Sols Bulwark gets purchased 6 times more often (50th of 121)
So either it is an item which doesn't fit the meta (which I believe to be tanky - yet nobody wants platemail - there is too much other stuff like hotbl/sols/shamans to buy) or it isn't effective for its cost OR it doesn't build into anything you really want (which is the real reason)
Last edited by Amdyn; 04-11-2012 at 01:25 PM.
Lower price of Plate from 1400 to 1200.
Increase price of Frostfield recipe from 600 to 800.
By shifting the cost to the final product the sub-component will be a more viable option as a stand alone item. 1200 gold for +10 armor is not a bad value.
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Hey guys.
What if.
What if Sol's Bulwark + Platemail auto-assembled into Daemonic Breastplate?
With a tweak to bulwark's recipe cost because it's way too easy to build right now.
Daemonic would be a shitty final item then. Unless you mean you're throwing in the +40 AS / +15 Aura for free, then its just stupid overpowered.
I've gotten platemail loads of times just for the armor. It sounds like OP has more of a problem with Frostplate than this item.
Actually you still even need the 550 chainmail for demonic.
Oh **** I forgot about the warpcleft.
Rework Barbed Armor to use this. Neither are used much, Plate is essentially removable from the game in its current state. Frostfield could be tweaked to use 2 lesser armors and might see more usage.
Proper answer though is to create something new using this item, something that is highly beneficial to tanky heroes or makes anyone else into a semi-tank.
I don't know if anyone have suggested it(haha post above have>.<), but, what if they modify the barbed abit instead? What is it now it is 1200 for the blade thingy 450 for the robe and 550 for a ringmail. What if they switch the blade for the platemail, and then you could swap the ringmail into another 450 +6 something?
Or you just have it so it gives you +15 armor, because that would be really usefull i think and it would be used more than it is today. Because i would rather have +15 armor +10 intelligence than have +22dmg +5 arm and +10 int. But that is just me.
Also, couldn't you make a new item with it? Something that gives you health and armor, like if you would get the platemail+breastheart and than a small recepie or nothing else? So you can get both hp and armor in the same item? Maybe a bit too OP idk.
There's no reason for 'components' to be cost-inefficient on their own. This is why recipes were invented.
It's hard to say what price platemail alone should be when you're comparing it to a seriously OP bulwark. I think 1200 as Macrohard suggested would be the point where players start buying it for it's own sake.
At 1200g it could replace the chainmails in Bulwark and go a reasonable way towards balancing that item.
A 200g-cheaper FFP might get picked up a little bit more.
The only other item affected is Daemonic. I don't think it'll make much difference to that as the upgrade price from Bulwarks remains the same.
Buff FFP and introduce a new item that uses Platemail. It's one of my favorite items because of the way it looks, so I'll often just pick it up for the hell of it.
Besides, it adds +10 armor, whereas Sol's can only add +9, for 600 less than Sol's. Of course, Sol's is easier to build and acts as an aura, but it costs more. Fixing the problem of Platemail not really turning into anything desirable will make it a viable pickup over Sol's.
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nothing wrong with it, problem is it only builds into ffp.
not rly hard to see
Plate mail is pretty fantastic in certain niches / situations. It's one of the best value per slot items. I think it's a great pickup, especially on tank characters for late game. I will often pick this up on Legionnaire or Moraxus after I have completed Blink / HotBL / Shaman's in hopes of building a FFP (which I think is a wonderful and punishing item, as long as the rest of your team has some disables.) These tanks tend to have high GPM early game that tapers off significantly in the end game, and completing an item can be out of the question in late game. Platemail gives them armor to counterbalance the poor scaling of HotBL at an affordable price.
Sure, it might not be bought every game. But we don't want items that must be bought every game.
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