[2.5.18] Platemail

[[EFL]Grangerer]

Quick overview:

-1400 Gold
-Grants 10 Armor
-Builds only into Frostfieldplate

Since the Implementation of the all-around-tool for Armor, Sols Bulwark, this item is no longer part of the buildup for Daemonic Breastplate.
With Sols Bulwark granting 5 Armor for yourself and +/-4 Armor as an Aura for 2000 Gold none really considers getting 10 Armor for 1400 Gold.

Players are only interested in getting Platemail if they are going to buy a Frostfieldplate, which is a rarely used item in itself.

Note that this item shares some similarities with Snake Bracelet(only building into one item) but contrary to it it has no real own usage, because there are better alternatives for getting Armor and there are no alternatives for getting Evasion.

Should it be used more often? Does the Problem lie in itself or in other items(FFP or Sols)? Should it have another possible usage(for example building into a new item)?

Discuss

[[TECH]Gorb]

Approved!

[[f13]`11411181]

Ideally, it should be in Sol's.

[man_guy]

Ideally, it should be in Sol's.

That or drop the recipe and Ringmail in Daemonic for Platemail. It was fine when Platemail built into both end game armor items. :/

[[YARG]Rosgath]

I think the biggest problem is that it builds into an endgame item that is mostly over-shadowed by other items. It needs more items that it can build into. The item itself is actually fine for both cost and effect.

[[P]ApolloFeed]

The item is fine situationally entirely by itself. It doesn't have to build into a big item for it to be useful. Is grave locket bad b/c it doesn't build into a $5000 item?

This item gives you 10 armor for $1400 for 1 slot. Most other armor items are a lot more expensive and only give you 5 armor. The only items that give ~10-15 armor are sol's, deamonic, and frostplate, but they are much more expensive.

Getting other armor items does not mean you can no longer buy this item. You can have both sol's and platemail at the same time.

[[YARG]Rosgath]

The item is fine situationally entirely by itself. It doesn't have to build into a big item for it to be useful. Is grave locket bad b/c it doesn't build into a $5000 item?

This item gives you 10 armor for $1400 for 1 slot. Most other armor items are a lot more expensive and only give you 5 armor. The only items that give ~10-15 armor are sol's, deamonic, and frostplate, but they are much more expensive.

Getting other armor items does not mean you can no longer buy this item. You can have both sol's and platemail at the same time.

You use a poor example. Grave Locket is the end item in and of itself. It's such a great item because it's silly easy to build and gives great stats really early in the game. Plate Mail is an ENTIRELY different story. It's a basic item that has no exceptional bonuses and no decent items to build into. A BETTER example for your argument would be to use void talisman but even then your statement falls apart as void talisman is a situational, if very strong item, that is reasonably difficult to build. Plate Mail is a situational, but not very strong item for the slot itself. You don't buy ringmail for the bonus armor alone. You don't buy Grave Locket because you plan to build it into something stronger later.

[[P]ApolloFeed]

Platemail has the most gold efficiency for 10 armor in a single slot compared to any other item in the game and it isn't an armor aura. It's a situationally good end item in itself.

[[YARG]Rosgath]

Platemail has the most gold efficiency for 10 armor in a single slot compared to any other item in the game and it isn't an armor aura. It's a situationally good end item in itself.

If i was looking for ONLY armor and it was already late enough that the difference between 550 gold and 1400 wasn't substantially significant AND i didn't have 2 item slots seeing as I've already finished all my core AND luxury items already, then sure I'd get Plate Mail over building something else with Ringmail. Problem is that you buy armor to increase your survivability against physical damage (typically carries) so WHY would I ever spend 1400 gold on Plate Mail and get maybe a second or 2 more of survival time after which I'll die anyway during a teamfight when I could always buy a void talisman which gives me physical immunity for 4 along with +7 to all stats? Plate Mail is NOT a good item in and of itself. If it WERE an end item in and of itself it would naturally be BETTER as all items that are single purchases and don't build into anything else WHATSOEVER are much more gold efficient or serve a unique purpose. Plate Mail does NOT serve a unique purpose. It is meant to build into another item and as such become greater than the parts.

[[babe]Blaity]

Platemail + 600 recipe = sols

That way platemail builds into 2 items.

and the 550 armour still builds into 2 items (barbed, armor boots)

[[f13]SomethingOdd]

Yeah, needs a new item to build into, messing with sols would make it much harder to build early game. Two 550 Items are much easier to buy than a 1400 item.
I doubt adding it into deamonic would help, Afaik sols is often gotten first when built into deamonic.

[[EFL]Grangerer]

I think adding a new item it builts into is not needed, because there are enough ways to stack armor. I believe bringing it back into Daemonic is the way to go.


Either make Platemail + 600 = Sols. That makes building Sols harder, but Sols is still a incredible good item, thus chaning the buildup wouldn't put into dumpster tier.

Or make Sols + Platemail +(50 Gold recipe)= Daemonic. You can drop the recipe if you like to.

[Apolon94]

If i was looking for ONLY armor and it was already late enough that the difference between 550 gold and 1400 wasn't substantially significant AND i didn't have 2 item slots seeing as I've already finished all my core AND luxury items already, then sure I'd get Plate Mail over building something else with Ringmail. Problem is that you buy armor to increase your survivability against physical damage (typically carries) so WHY would I ever spend 1400 gold on Plate Mail and get maybe a second or 2 more of survival time after which I'll die anyway during a teamfight when I could always buy a void talisman which gives me physical immunity for 4 along with +7 to all stats? Plate Mail is NOT a good item in and of itself. If it WERE an end item in and of itself it would naturally be BETTER as all items that are single purchases and don't build into anything else WHATSOEVER are much more gold efficient or serve a unique purpose. Plate Mail does NOT serve a unique purpose. It is meant to build into another item and as such become greater than the parts.

Apples and oranges. First of all, Void makes you vulnerable to magic damage, you can't activate SH (that's why you won't ever see it on someone like Torturer, but instead a FP), AND it doesn't ANYTHING against physical spells (Armadon, DW as popular examples).

[[WhiP]Uroefl]

If I'd need armor I rather take pick ups like tablet/nomes etc etc since the tiny bit of agi givesenough armor + the items gives an effect.

[[YARG]Rosgath]

Apples and oranges. First of all, Void makes you vulnerable to magic damage, you can't activate SH (that's why you won't ever see it on someone like Torturer, but instead a FP), AND it doesn't ANYTHING against physical spells (Armadon, DW as popular examples).

First point, it is true that it makes you vulnerable to magic damage and is not activatable during SH, but the reason someone like torturer would pick FFP isn't because of the armor. If he has that much farm he's getting it for the bonus int and the large area AoE slow. Odds are at that point he'll have a lot of bonus mana regen so the int gives him even more and he should already have a SH if he's farming up FFP. The armor and reduced AS aura are handy for keeping those carries from tearing him apart, but if he needed defense against a carry specifically he'd still rather get a void talisman.

Second point is false entirely. It does block both those spells. They are physical in nature and are blocked by void talisman. They are not NULLED like most people would assume it just works like a SH for those spells and you become an invalid target. Armadon's spines just don't hit you for the duration, though his snot storm will because it's magic.

TL;DR my argument is based on 2 items you would pick up for defense against physical attacks so your "apples and oranges" argument does not apply. Plate Mail is obviously inferior in every way in and of itself behind void talisman.

[[f13]`11411181]

Except on any hero that wants high EHP. Also, comparing Void and Platemail ROFL.

[Amdyn]

Except on any hero that wants high EHP. Also, comparing Void and Platemail ROFL.

Agreed on void vs platemail.

That is the problem though - for 1400 I could already have a shield and a beastheart towards my hotbl.
Why would I spend 1400 on a 10 armour item which slows down my progress to sols -----> Deamonic

There is just no time when platemail is a useful pickup on its own instead of another item.

[[f13]`11411181]

Agreed on void vs platemail.

That is the problem though - for 1400 I could already have a shield and a beastheart towards my hotbl.
Why would I spend 1400 on a 10 armour item which slows down my progress to sols -----> Deamonic

There is just no time when platemail is a useful pickup on its own instead of another item.

The only time you're ever picking up a component on its own is if it's batshit imba. Of course you're not going to go Platemail when you want Daemonic, that's so silly it's not even worth mentioning.
Also, timeframe of the game is important - nothing Platemail goes into (or has ever gone into) has ever been at the same price range as hotbl. It's like saying why go Firebrand when I could go straight Slayer.

Components aren't designed to be cost-efficient by themselves unless they're hella cheap (see: minor totems, +3str/int/agi components), and generally anything past that is meant to be picked up for items past your "core" set - what you need to really function in the game.

[vorsgald]

Platemail serves little purpose. For 600 more you can get a Sol's. If FFP had platemail replaced with two ringmail and had the recipe cost upped accordingly, nobody would even notice. In fact, we might see more FFP, since you could pick up the ringmails earlier for more survivability while farming up the acolyte's staff.
I personally feel that void talisman is ALWAYS a better pickup than platemail unless you're building a FFP, given that the 7 strength is 133 health, plus the 7 agility translates into a bit of armor, plus 4 seconds of physical invulnerability that you can toggle whenever you see fit... Platemail won't save you from a predator or a swiftblade ult, but a VT will, and that's why you pick an item like that up. Either 1-2 more items need their recipes to include platemail (and I'm having trouble thinking of anything other than daemonic, which doesn't seem like it would make a whole lot of difference anyway, since that's a pretty expensive item to begin with, all things included...maybe drop the ringmail and add to the recipe cost?), or it should be scrapped and FFP should be refactored to use ringmails and have a higher recipe cost. Alternatively, it could be a little better for the cost, which might make it more valuable as a standalone item. But I agree that as it stands, it serves no useful niché.

[[TsGr]Isis]

Platemail is a horrible pick, because, like mentioned above, for 600 more you can get a sol's and give your entire team armor, or take away the enemy team's armor. Platemail builds into one item, and that item isn't very good. Furthermore, a void talisman is far more effective than platemail will EVER be. If you're playing against a physical dps heavy team (let's say panda and predator, wtih DS thrown in), the void talisman is going to be more effective anyways, on top of giving you +7 to all stats. Frostfield plate is also garbage, Demonic is better for armor, sheep / hellflower are better int options.

Make it build into demonic again, remove the chainmail from the recipe and throw in platemail. Reduce recipe cost (or eliminate it) to make the end price exactly the same. If you don't make it build into a new item or buff frostfield plate, it simply isn't useful.