Assists for Effective Heals.

[Sherwood]

Scenario (Problem)

and fight. receives a heal from and kills . Why doesn't receive an assist in the kill? has helped in killing by healing so she could survive the fight. The way in which could ensure an assist would be to waddle up to the target and auto attack or by using his heal offensively (which would not be preferable as was likely to die.)

The current system encourages detrimental play-styles to working as a team if a hero has a single target heal. All heroes benefit from having gold.


Solution

has 35%. heals bumping her up to 85% health. hurts and eventually kills .
Because has effectively healed who then slain , gains assist credit for killing .

Assists for Effectively healing the Killer.


Outcome

Supporting heroes who go out of their way to heal their fellow team mates would received assist credit in which they would otherwise not have. Especially with heroes like where without this situation, obtaining assistance credit would be in consistent or perilous/selfish[damaging with cauterize). This is beyond gaining an extra number in their Assist Kill tally, it's about gaining the gold they deserve. Support heroes ideally do not farm, they sacrifice farming for the carry. They also are not meant to take hero kills off carries. Therefore their only source of gold optimistically is through assistance kills. If you're in a position where all your resources is spent into preventing the deaths of your team through healing and not damaging the enemy, then you will be short of gold. Accursed is the most victimised as his heal will damage or heal but not both. Damaging an enemy means he is not healing an ally, or his heal is on Cooldown/or won't have enough mana when he needs to heal a team member. His shield may not detonate, or detonate too soon and not hit any enemy hero thus granting him no assistance. Unlike other 'AOE' abilities, Accursed has no true control over when his shield detonates. It's ultimately down to sod's law rather than luck/clever use. Accursed has a useful debuff that can only applied via melee attacks. If he is to apply this debuff for his team he needs to survive being in melee range as a Support. He has his ultimate to assist him as well as being smart about his positioning, but at the end of the day, having farm would help a lot. Sadly it's from the inconsistent assist kills.

No one wants a support to farm just to support.

This change would be unnoticeable for a majority of healing supporting heroes as a lot of heals also do AOE damage effects. This change would be the world of difference for defensive heals ( and .) But mostly .

[[SSBC]Balls`n`Nuts]

I like the idea, but is it not enough of a reward to keep the carry alive thus keeping the Carrys GPM high?
If you swap TDl for a ranged hero like valk and Acc for DS, ds does not get an assist either.

[Sherwood]

It is a great reward in itself keeping the carry alive, however you gain assistance with slowing/debuffing/snaring and stunning enemy heroes upon their demise. Healing can be compared to this. A healthier ally will be more willing to be reckless in pursing a kill than a weaker ally. Same can be said an ally pursing a kill on a snared/stunned/slowed/debuffed enemy.

The great thing about the idea is not only does it help Accursed, but also helps other healy supports in similar scenarios.

Thank you to the players who think this is a good idea. It's only fair this system exists. As it has to be effective healing on the hero who lands the killing blow, it's a system that's very hard to abuse. With heroes like SR and Nymph who have AOE healing that also damages, they'd 'tag' the assists anyway with their AOE presences.

[[SSBC]Balls`n`Nuts]

Only true when attacker is melee or low range. otherwise no effect.
I get your point, i just think healers should be played for keeping carrys alive and in my mind that is enough of a reward.
Say Yo have the same situation but fa is dominating with 99% hp, acc heals and gets an assist?
Abusive i would say. DS can heal every 5 sek making him an assist farmer.

[Sherwood]

I don't think it would be an issue as normally in the situation of

Say Yo have the same situation but fa is dominating with 99% hp, acc heals and gets an assist?

any other hero would try and tag with an auto attack or a nuke ability.

Abusive i would say. DS can heal every 5 sek making him an assist farmer.

DS has an ultimate on a 45 second cooldown with a massive radius that will pretty much debuff every enemy (if used offensively). DS's 5 sec heal also means that every 5seconds he is dealing a small amount of physical aoe damage around the target. It would be deal damage pretty much 'anyway'.

Still the options for abuse would be very small.

i just think healers should be played for keeping carrys alive and in my mind that is enough of a reward.

Except why is Accursed's only method of being considered assisting limping up into melee range, mis-using his heal or his Shield exploding at the right time. I agree with you, but surely it's better keeping the carry alive and the healer being able to keep the carry alive for longer? Especially regarding as I said with Accursed.

[[SSBC]Balls`n`Nuts]

Accursed was only in range for a heal and not for a helping burst, he heals 99% fa and gets an assist?

A small bug is diffidently going to be the time from heal to kill, say accursed heals 10 secs before fa gets a kill, is he still tagged with an assist?
I Meen if DS auto attacks TDL 10 secs before fa kills her. He gets an assist right?

[Sherwood]

Maybe, but if the problem of abusing this change in system is deemed too great, then the window between 'heal' and 'kill' can be reduced to a reasonable time.

[Sherwood]

Bump.

[[S2]ElementUser]

Well, like I said, the method of implementation is going to most likely be either bad design, bad balance or both. Anyway not gonna vote on the poll, staying neutral.

Those are my thoughts.

[Sherwood]

Might you have a suggestion of how this issue could be resolved for this particular hero? With the addition of more and more heroes, Accursed's role will shift slowly more and more towards of that "Tanky/Counter Carry thing with teamplayness" than "Pure Support". The former would forgive him for being more offensive with cauterise and deliberately farming.

[Sherwood]

Bump

[Sherwood]

Bump

[Sherwood]

bump

[Sherwood]

Remember if you disagree with this suggestion, state why.

No (I have given a good reason below)

.
Stating why means you genuinely have a reason against this. If a reason has been mentioned before and you agree with it, quote it.
Just clicking no and moving on means that you're either a forum troll who wants to be spiteful or you just don't care at all.
You have nothing to fear from saying why you disagree. Perhaps I might be able to resolve your fears or together we can come to a fair compromise.
You clicked on a suggestion with an unexciting title and then voted no. Surely the fact you clicked on this thread means you have an interest. Show it then and state why you disagree, please. Thank you.
In till you don't give a reason, I'll assume it's an invalid opinion. The GMs of the forums might not, but I will.
It's easy to vote no, but it's also not helpful for either sides of 'Yes' and 'No'. In the process of typing your thoughts you might come to a realisation of what your opinion is. You may be able to convince yourself 'actually this is a good idea' or reinforce it's a 'still a bad idea'.

[Sherwood]

Bump

[Arcstei]

Personally, I think this is quite a good idea. There is potential for it being "Abused" but it would be pretty easily countered by keeping the time window for getting an assist from your heal low. However this idea as a whole would only remedy a few select circumstances. Accursed is really the only hero without the ability to assist from afar, without giving up his heal of course. It's still an idea I'd like to see implemented, but it would just be polishing away a very small issue.

[Sherwood]

Thank you for the support. Yes, it is a small issue, but it is an issue that will always be there. It's also an issue that will become slowly more and more a bigger issue over time as more heroes get added. Accursed's problem which this suggestion helps a lot with is bad hero design. Therefore the likely-hood of another hero having this problem is small. Martyr as I've said previously is the only other example, but at least he is ranged. You have debate on the balance forums about newer heroes overshadowing existing heroes. This could very happen with Accursed. What's the use of a support that ideally requires gold to make full use of his supportive 3rd ability? Why not take a different support that fills Accursed's role. Accursed is in danger overtime to become a niche hero in less his supporting play-style is fair in comparison to other support hero types. You don't want a Voodoo Jester to put a -Mojo on an enemy to tag an assist instead of +mojoing a critically hurt ally (when an auto attack would be suffice). Nor do you want your demented shaman farming the jungle [Yes I know DS is better off pushing lanes].

[Sherwood]

Bump

[Sherwood]

Bump.

[Sherwood]

Bump