Legionnaire's New Spin Mechanic

[[s2z]blackAngel]

Here's the important part of the code from the new ability:

<compare a="charges" b="11" op="ge">
                <spawnaffector name="Affector_Legionnaire_Ability3" target="source_entity" firsttarget="" />
                <playeffect effect="effects/cast.effect" source="source_entity" target="" />
                <startcooldown />
                <setcharges a="0" />
                <resettimer />
            </compare>
            <else>
                <evaluate a="8" b="charges" op="mult" />
                <evaluate a="0" b="result" op="add" />
                <evaluate a="result" b="100" op="div" />
                <chance threshold="result">
                    <spawnaffector name="Affector_Legionnaire_Ability3" target="source_entity" firsttarget="" />
                    <playeffect effect="effects/cast.effect" source="source_entity" target="" />
                    <startcooldown />
                    <setcharges a="0" />
                    <resettimer />
                </chance>
                <else>
                    <addcharges count="1" />
                    <starttimer duration="5000" />
                </else>

basically, at first attack you have 0 chance to procc, which increases 10 times (1-11) from 0% to 80%. At the 12th attack, you procc for sure.
After each procc, charges get reset. If it didnt procc it increases charge by 1 for max 11 times.



With the old skill (always 17%, 100% for 12th attack without procc) you had an average of 1 Spin per 5.25 attacks.
With the new skill you have an average of 1 Spin every 5.125 attacks, which would be a buff of 2,3%.

The bigger difference however is that with the new skill you can't procc twice in a row. So if you were really lucky with spins before, you will probably notice this as a nerf.
With the old skill, you had a 17% chance on proccing on first hit, which is impossible with the new skill.

With the new change, it is very unlikley to procc before the 3rd/4th attack compared to the old skill. But you will not have to wait longer than 7 attacks to procc it most of the time.

IMO this change makes it alot easier to farm in jungle, but in teamfights it might actually be a little worse. because you won't be able to suprise enemies with luckspins anymore, but the fact that the spins are happening in a more constant fashion, may help in jungle.

Overall: this is a small buff to legionnaire, and you won't have to wait for the 12th attack anymore. almost never. With the new skill, the probability that you have to wait for 12 attacks, is the smallest (0.11%). With the old skill it was pretty much: either procc at 1st or 2nd, or just wait for the 12th.

1st-4th attack: nerf
5th: about the same+.
6th-12th: ALMOST NEVER WAIT FOR 12th AGAIN! BUFF++


Chance that you procc at xth attack:


and cumulative distribution function:



PS: dont play legio until they fix the bug, at the moment it only proccs at 12th attack xD

[[S2]MacroHard]

I helped design this change. I assure you this is indeed a buff.

Yes, you cannot spin twice in a row. However keep in mind that there is a cooldown (old and new method). This cooldown prevented spinning twice in a row anyhow if being attacked very quickly, even with the old system. With the new method by the time spin comes off cooldown you're already at 2 or 3 charges and ready for prime time.

I'll post what I had done to convince DOGKaiser of this change in a bit.

[[S2]MacroHard]

Numbers for Legionnaire's spin, for comparison:

Table:

Graph:

Basically, he has a much greater chance of spinning between 3 to 7 attacks, rather than either very quick (1 to 2 attacks) or not at all (12 attacks). His overall effective spin rate has increased from 19.035% to 19.512%.

[Batchman]

would be nice to see the reasoning behind 0% on 1st attack, having one attack every 2-12 attacks never spin seems bad, considering spin has cooldown so 2 consecutive spins are not so op

[IanDresari]

Well done Macro, I hoped they would change him in that way when I read your vote thread!
Although the 0% on the first attack seems intriguing, but I suppose with the 0.5(?) sec cooldown spin always had anyway you will have 1-2 charges anyway in a typical fight after the cd.

[[s2z]blackAngel]

Did you really have to create a new one? (mine)

also @IanDresari: you don't get charges while it's on cooldown.

[[S2]MacroHard]

Did you really have to create a new one? (mine)

also @IanDresari: you don't get charges while it's on cooldown.

Because I've been working on and pushing for this change for about two months. I had this thread in notepad ready to copy over in anticipation of the change for weeks.

Considering that your numbers are correct (unlike some posts on Reddit) and you somehow beat me to it, I therefore merged the threads and kept you as originator. Nice work!

[[s2z]blackAngel]

With the new method by the time spin comes off cooldown you're already at 2 or 3 charges and ready for prime time.

this isn't entirely correct, since you dont get charges added while the ability is on cooldown.
So either way, the cooldown prevented spins and adding charges first, and now only adding charges (since it wouldnt procc anyway on first charge).


And yes it is a buff, but the mean is ALMOST the same and since the new version can't procc twice in a row, the best case scenario(multiple consecutive proccs vs every 2nd attack is a procc) is twice as bad as the old one.
worst case scenario is still the same, but much more unlikely in the newer skill, which pretty much sums up the buff.

Like i said before, in jungle the more constant spins will come in handy, in teamfights you'd profit more from more consecutive, but at least you won't encounter the worst case scenarios anymore.

well, since he's bugged, theorycrafting is all we can do right now, but i'm sure there will be some complaints about no possible double proccs. overall damageoutput should still be about the same (+2.3% better), so i guess they wouldn't be justified anyway.

[[S2]ElementUser]

You could always just add a very tiny base proc chance and voila, problem solved. Now there's a possibility he can double-proc rather than 0%.

[KingBane]

i like this post because fancy line graphs.

edit: ps macrohard your bar graphs DISGUST ME!

[NinjaBubbles]

Did someone actually beat macro in graphs/math? Im amazed...

[[S2]MacroHard]

Did someone actually beat macro in graphs/math? Im amazed...

He ninja'd me on it, indeed. "Better" is subjective. I decided on doing bars because of the discrete instances for attacks; it is not a smooth line with infinite increments. =)

[KingBane]

He ninja'd me on it, indeed. "Better" is subjective. I decided on doing bars because of the discrete instances for attacks; it is not a smooth line with infinite increments. =)

you sound super jelly of blackangel's super pretty line graphs!

[zlip]

oh this sounds so awesome.
as far as I'm concerned I'd be fine with a nerf to the overall spin, as long as it is a bit more consistent.

"Sorry guys, my jungle farm is horrible because of being unlucky with spins."

[[S2]MacroHard]

oh this sounds so awesome.
as far as I'm concerned I'd be fine with a nerf to the overall spin, as long as it is a bit more consistent.

"Sorry guys, my jungle farm is horrible because of being unlucky with spins."

Um, this isn't a proposal. This was actually implemented over three months ago. What you see in this thread is how it actually works.