[2.5.17] Sand Wraith

[VioletVail]

Please define why deserts curse needs to be buffed or his mirage?
People should put more thought into it then randomly saying it needs to be buffed.

As example, Sandwraiths problem is his early game presence compared to all the other hard carries.
Even though Sandwraith is a unique hero then as example The dark lady or Chronos, but their end games are more or less equall.
The difference is Chronos and The dark lady have a way better early game then Sandwraith which makes them better picks if the end game result is about the same.

Few points here

-By definition, a 'hard carry' is a hero that requires massive amounts of farm to fulfill their role sufficiently.
-TDL, Chronos and Wraith all fit in this category. Wraith is equally as bad as the others early game, keep in mind he has a free global teleport and practically a free slayer($2200 worth) with his pure damage for chasing heros getting ganked.
-The main issue is that s2 are so horrible at designing heroes that these 'hard carries' become less and less used. Engi, Chronos, SW, have all copped massive nerfs since beta. Only what, 6 months ago wraith received 3 or 4 nerfs, and then followed by his ultimate not providing attack modifiers. DUMPSTERED!!

Silo is the best example of this, a carry with 2 escape mechs, a stun, and a passive that could hit for 400 damage coupled with her first skill(when first released). Silo also happens to fit in the 'hard carry' role, except she also happens to be powerful early game, which is the problem with s2's design philosophy. Swiftblade(juggernaut) also fits into this 'powerful all game' motto, except he is nowhere near as strong as silo lategame and gets owned by a handful of items. Im so glad that Nome left the company, I actually have friends whove worked with him before, he does not understand fundamental game mechanics like importance of hero positioning skills, and instead balances purely off numbers. I believe he once quoted regarding Soulstealer that no hero's ultimate should be able to do that much damage, completely disregarding the fact that he requires the most shitty positioning in the game to pull it off, and 6k of items to do so. The guy is a fking retard.

It's a shame that such classical heroes like Void and Spectre have been dumpstered in HoN due to horrible understanding of hero mechanics on S2's behalf.

[J0hnny]

Few points here

-By definition, a 'hard carry' is a hero that requires massive amounts of farm to fulfill their role sufficiently.
-TDL, Chronos and Wraith all fit in this category. Wraith is equally as bad as the others early game, keep in mind he has a free global teleport and practically a free slayer($2200 worth) with his pure damage for chasing heros getting ganked.
-The main issue is that s2 are so horrible at designing heroes that these 'hard carries' become less and less used. Engi, Chronos, SW, have all copped massive nerfs since beta. Only what, 6 months ago wraith received 3 or 4 nerfs, and then followed by his ultimate not providing attack modifiers. DUMPSTERED!!

Silo is the best example of this, a carry with 2 escape mechs, a stun, and a passive that could hit for 400 damage coupled with her first skill(when first released). Silo also happens to fit in the 'hard carry' role, except she also happens to be powerful early game, which is the problem with s2's design philosophy. Swiftblade(juggernaut) also fits into this 'powerful all game' motto, except he is nowhere near as strong as silo lategame and gets owned by a handful of items. Im so glad that Nome left the company, I actually have friends whove worked with him before, he does not understand fundamental game mechanics like importance of hero positioning skills, and instead balances purely off numbers. I believe he once quoted regarding Soulstealer that no hero's ultimate should be able to do that much damage, completely disregarding the fact that he requires the most shitty positioning in the game to pull it off, and 6k of items to do so. The guy is a fking retard.

It's a shame that such classical heroes like Void and Spectre have been dumpstered in HoN due to horrible understanding of hero mechanics on S2's behalf.

That is so true. I hate every new S2 hero. Reason? Just to low mana cost low cooldowns every hero got eather a shield or heal a stun & slow. Its just to hard to play old heroes like SW in a game full of new heroes. Its nearly imposible to farm while there is 1 or 2 new heroes that can harras the hell out of you. I mean look at arestia(or what ever her name is) & elonora(or what ever her name is) and just tell me that its fair to play aginst them on a lane. No it's not fair. Almost no mana cost low cooldwns & IMBA dmg eaven on low lvls. Thats the reason why DotA heroes needs to be buffed! Not mutch. But just to be fair. Just look at Arty. Man he can shoot you down from base to base -.- is that fair? No -.-

[[RawR]iSlapMelons]

Poll result: 80% on too weak. Huh.

[HELLruler]

SW is a bad pick now imo. I played several matches to see if he's that nice, but I'm disappointed.
His Q is totally terrible in the first levels because of the high mana cost, and he's really weak considering that he can't farm well or kill without ksing (you can't 1v1 like Scout, Nomad or Mage Bane)

The solution: higher base damage, lower mana costs and CDs

And gj CobaltBlue, I totally agree with you

[[NSXx]jimmys45]

It's not that he is too weak. Its just that s2 heroes are to strong.
I know its called ''early aggression heroes'' that s2 is making... but Why???
Dota & Hon was all about killing creeps getting items a bit of ganking getting some kills and Win the game
Now its all about giving s2 10$ for the win.. And that's retarded..
Early aggression? I call it money making... That ppl actually pay for...
And thats just sad... very very sad :/

mmmmm call me crazy but s2 isnt dota and dota isnt s2. They use the same mechanics, even copy some characters but in the end its still a different company/different game. Ex COD to Battle field, Square to w/e RPG company. So yea its sad for a dota fan wanting to have dota in hon but if you wanted that why are you playing hon instead of dota? S2 is of course going to bump up there characters because its fits there style of how this genre should play regardless if that is true or not true.

FTR not S2 fan, just trying to make a logical statement. If you want the old dota mechanics then in my opinion your prob going find what you want by playing dota. Sorry but true.

[[cPm]SilkyTheCat]

The question is: Why pick Sand Wraith over other hard carries? He requires active babysitting to get early-game farm (unlike Chronos with his high base damage, or Puppet with his range + crit), his best environments is escaping and chasing (unlike Chronos' regeneration or ultimate, or DL's AoE silence and ultimate), and he can be kited fairly well throughout the game (unlike heroes with leaps or stuns).

Sand Wraith can be played well and do well but has no real niche of his own. I suggest finding a new niche and balancing accordingly. Right now there is nothing but a boss avatar to recommend SW over other hard carries. He has too many vestigial qualities which don't synergize coherently.

[D0ri]

I know this is kind of off topic, but: What happened to these forums? Half the posts in here have no reasoning to them or are somewhat hard to even understand because they lack punctuation or are written in some strange perverted form of English. Add to that the bias that "all S2 heroes have more than 300ms, a slow, a stun, an escape mech, a shield bla" and you have this. Good Lord. Moderators, have you forsaken this forum?

edit: after checking the 3rd page again, it seems that it's more of a recent issue. Also, same thing in other threads.

Now on topic: Sand Wraith, even though he's probably a bit weak at the moment, has its own unique niche, being that he never needs to stop farming, as his ult allows him to always participate in any teamfight/gank he wants to. He is also a hero that profits a lot of assist gold (probably more than any other hero) as just tapping R when a gank is happening somewhere on the map will probably get him at least one assist. He probably needs his scaling reworked/buffed though, as other tanky carries just punish you harder when you attack/ignore them. Maybe reverting one of the nerfs he got back in the era when he was shining would do the trick.

[[eR]Ekamo]

I know this is kind of off topic, but: What happened to these forums? Half the posts in here have no reasoning to them or are somewhat hard to even understand because they lack punctuation or are written in some strange perverted form of English. Add to that the bias that "all S2 heroes have more than 300ms, a slow, a stun, an escape mech, a shield bla" and you have this. Good Lord. Moderators, have you forsaken this forum?

Report button is your friend.

As much as we would love to be able to read every single post, some days we are too busy to do so, but we always check the recent reports.

But thanks, criticism noted.

[ChillyWater]

Question: Does Desolate (or the +50 dmg passive) not work if there are allied creeps(to your enemy, not you) around?

[VioletVail]

Yes it applies to creeps, otherwise it would be a completely retarded mechanic in the early laning phase

[ChillyWater]

No I mean, do creeps count as heroes and stop you hitting the extra damage to heroes?

[VioletVail]

Yes thats what I mean. A creep registers as a hero and your bonus damage will not apply.

[ChillyWater]

That is kinda silly :/

[[eR]Ekamo]

Can anyone actually confirm that?

[[SSxy]Nolander]

Can anyone actually confirm that?

Yes, I just tested it in a practice game. Creeps do count towards it. Skill descriptions reads "The Sand Wraith deals an additional 15/25/35/45 True damage to enemy heroes who have no allied units near them". I tested it on a poor arachna, and it was indeed very noticeable.

[VioletVail]

Its quite easy to tell just jump in practice mode. Theres a small visual effect for deserted. Trust me if it werent the case Wraith would be getting picked in every game you played... It's always been this way. If creeps didnt register, Wraith would become highly overpowered, practically giving him a free permanent slayer at level 9 to destroy heroes in lane and with global ganks.

Like I said its mostly the burst damage style of s2's design and new heroes( especially carries) that made him crappy. He did also get overnerfed tho, curse got nerfed, dispersion got nerfed twice, and finally the non-modifying of his ultimate. They should have just tweaked the deserted range back up a little and left everything else alone, but yeah s2 have no fuking idea.

[ikir]

new sand wraith buff is actually pretty sick. played a game with him and dominated.

props to s2 for a buff that is just right.

[VioletVail]

Im not able to play for a few days

-obvious question but have to ask!
-if you hit the entire team with curse, will your ultimate apply deserted to every hero?
-logically it would have to of course

Seems too strong a buff, its not very difficult to hit multiple players with such a long range ground/hero targeted spell

Oh wells buff is a buff Hopefully they do something about Chronos next

[ikir]

i'm pretty sure it would apply to all of them. doesn't seem OP to me considering the only use of his ultimate is porting around the map. no one ever gets buff enough for the illusions to do significant damage.

[[S0D]Senitine]

Im not able to play for a few days

-obvious question but have to ask!
-if you hit the entire team with curse, will your ultimate apply deserted to every hero?
-logically it would have to of course

Seems too strong a buff, its not very difficult to hit multiple players with such a long range ground/hero targeted spell

Oh wells buff is a buff Hopefully they do something about Chronos next

I believe illusions don't apply deserted so its defintely not OP