I'm going to try and start a new "trend" for some discussion around the clan and competitive forum here. Somewhat like a game/forum thing, I'd like to have discussions every once in a while about a hero that may or may not be competitive. I'll probably be going along the list of most used heroes found here to give it a sense of order.
Information and Skills: Scout
How could he be competitive?
- AoE Silence (donates to teamfights).
- Free observer wards.
- Good ganker (invisibility/disarm).
- Decent carry when farmed.
- Great chaser.
- Can instagib a crucial hero on the enemy team.
Why isn't he competitive?
- Doesn't donate to teamfights as much as many other heroes.
- Lack of AoE damage.
- Somewhat easily countered (dust).
- Low health pool.
Overall, I'd like to ask the community: Do you think he's a competitive hero?
Obviously he is...best hero in the game imo!
You forget the best : An ultimate to pull off KS................................................ .................which is important since carries need the kills
I'm not involved in the competitive scene, but in my opinion I don't think he's a competitive choice. As you stated his lack of AoE, low health pool, item dependency, but also how weak he is in a lane compared to other heroes. Sure he can get a few kills early on, but there are better carrys, better AoE dps in team fights, and you can buy wards for 200g every 6 minutes. Waste of a pick if someone actually picks him imo.
There are better gankers, there are better carries..... if at least he had 'track' to mark madman or smth.........
To disarm, he needs to attack. To attack, he needs to be visible. When he his visible, in melee range, he is going to get his face absolutely molested.
Disarm, while good, isn't supported by his health pool unless he farms killer items.
His flurry is trash. Once he comes out of flurry, does piddly damage 1-4 times (or whatever), all he can do is auto-attack, with mediocre hp and no snares with his trash damage while the enemy likely runs away or uses a stun/snare and lives.
That leaves his wards and ultimate which I think are both good skills.
1/3, poor - cool concepts but not supported by his inherent stats
The more I think about it, if Scout was ranged instead of melee, it would be more likely to see competition so he could stay in the background and shoot carries without being in the front lines.
tl;dr : Not competitive.
In the right hands he CAN be competitive.
Compared to other carries he got a somehow save farm with (nearly perma) invis.
His biggest problem is that he needs to join a team fight really late since he just cant take all the insta-dmg that is thrown out at start of teamfights. He is great for getting low HP runners. He is great for taking carries out of the fight (silence+disarm). He is a great tempest counter. AND he is great in destroying enemies jungle. Blocking a big creep spot with ward (good placed its close to impossible to find it) really hurts the farm of a jungler.
His biggest problem is that he NEEDS to get played aggresive, but he dont got the HP pool to do so. So he really needs a decent player who knows when to attack and when not to.
He got a great rune control. And NOTHING hurts more then a scout with dd on lvl 7/8 when most heroes still got about 800 hp and he is dashing out like 400 dmg (without crit) in 1sec. Depending on crit luck he just insta-gibs a int char in this stage of game.
He is a great ganker from lvl 6/7. Its usually a free-kill when you got a stunner on the lane you go for to gank.
He gots lots of good sides and lots of bad sides. Picking him in the right matchup might win the game, but picking him in the wrong matchup means 4on5.
From an amateurs perspective I don't think so. He's good in public games because of stealth. He's not a good carry because he's weak in lane and he can't farm. Saying that he's "a decent carry when farmed" is a misnomer because his skills don't allow him to farm.
-very low health
thats explain enough
Dota 2 Smite
The Holy Trinity
His skillset is somehow perfect for farming...Wards to see ganks coming. Invis to get away. Incredible Movespeed to get away even when they got Dust/Gem. AND max attackspeed every few seconds for 4 attacks makes him farm really fast.
+his ability to get lots of kills in the early game.
He is not even close to be a bad farmer. Predator is a worse farmer. Madman is worse too. So if i follow your logic then Scout > madman > predator.
So predator suxx?
Madman beats him cold - he's got an aoe line stun, and a way better ultimate that actually synergizes with his abilities. His crit does more damage than scout's disarm. His invis is not quite so good, but he's nowhere near as dependent on it.
Scout is sort of a generalist hero - he's a carry, but not a great carry, he donates to team fights, but he's nowhere near as good as many others for it, his map control is good but not as good as many others, and his stat gain for hp is just pure crap so he dies clean against enemy nukers. If the other team has a single snare, he dies to ganks easily, and he has no real farming abilities.
He's not competitive because he dies too fast, and doesn't do one thing well enough to specialize in it.
*btw, a farming ability is an ability that does lots of easy damage to creeps and/or lets you easily heal or ignore damage from them (predator's lifesteal, legionaires spin/taunt, zephyrs whirlwinds). Quick aoe nukes also count if you can spam them. Scout has neither.
Hes only good in pubs because of his ability to farm freely against unaware players. How many times you will see a pro stat player fast-pick Scout, cockily assuming he can farm his way to the late game massacre.
In any pub with team synergy, scout is a just an annoyance. I worry MUCH MORE about a smart Keeper of the Forest then I do a Scout
AngryTestie has joined clan FnaticMSI
Posted: 11:27 am 11/16/2011
Situational. If you have a good Scout player he works fairly well, however your opponents can just lay a Ward down and hug it when they push, then you can't touch them.
The only thing you'll accomplish by this post is finding out how many people play Scout 80% of the time to jack their KDR.
The people who voted that he's not competitive choose him whenever they can in pubs because he's so retarded OP. Disarm is three skills in one. Vanish is two skills in one - RETARDED OP.
And yea, i know what farming ability means. But its not like heroes without "farming abilities" arent good farmers...as i already said scout is a kinda good farmer because he always can put some wards around to see incoming ganks, etc.
And yes, Madman Crits do more dmg. Quote pls where i said anything else.
And yea, Madman got some nice skills for teamfights. But MM also got a WAY harder time to get stronger.
I have never seen a MM getting strong when i played with organized ppl. Its just too easy to hold him low.
But you cant hold a scout low. At least if the game is longer then 30min...
yes if the player playing it know what to do and don't stay in stealth just to steal kills
Aoe silence, farm potential, map control and a hard dps carry. He's doesn't have great lane presence, but shouldn't be ganked. Perma free wards, stealth detection and a silence that he can use while stunned makes him viable imo.
As I said, Ward -> Hug the Ward = invulnerability for a team against Scout.
Except Scout has free wards which is pretty huge in a game where there are limited wards on the map. There's a reason why Beastmaster is still used today in DotA, and a big reason is because he has free scouting and he's solid in most respects (good ganker, not the best, can somewhat carry, and the biggest thing he has over Scout is obviously AoE axes). Beastmaster definitely isn't the best in any respect, but he's solid pick.
However, Scout is still too underpowered to be compared to Beastmaster currently. Once he gets buffed a few more times (which I think will eventually happen), he'll start to get picked due to the wards.