Sweet. So now that there's an appropriate forum for these sort of things, I'm going to copy/paste this here.
Here's a few responses from the other thread:Grace of the Nymph
This power absolutely needs changed to something useful. As it stands, I only train this power at level 21-25, because I have no other option. It's completely unnecessary.
A bottle or a mana tube is more than enough to satisfy her mana requirements for the first 6 levels or so. Beyond that, once you've purchased a mid-game item, mana becomes a pretty much irrelevant issue for her. None of her powers are particuarly expensive, and they all have a long (15 seconds or more) cooldown and are not spammable. By level 12ish, there's literally no way that I can run her out of mana.
At those critical first levels, consider the other options. One is a heal that helps her recover from harassment, heals your lane partner, and chases away the heroes harassing you. Another is her stun, which is her only escape, and a key power for setting up ganks. Finally, you can just pick stats, which are necessary to compensate for her fragility - and end up adding to her mana regen and pool size anyhow.
Grace of the Nymph is just not a useful power.
Originally Posted by RPZip
Originally Posted by Kynth
Originally Posted by HankyPanky
Finally, I wanted to recommend a name change for Nymphora. I think we could do better than having a fairy named "Nympho".
I think HankyPanky's suggestion is spot on! Obsidian's aura would be GREAT on Nymph I think. Would deff fill the empty gap left by the current skill, and would make her even more of a support hero imo.
I'm a fan of Nymphora as well and don't bother with Nymph's Grace. I like the idea of an aura, but I dislike it being a chance. It's appropriate for Obsidian, since his main spell has 0 cooldown, but not so much on Nymphora.
What about something like "Reduces the mana cost of spells of Nymphora and her allies by x% of Nymphoras total mana, up to a total of y% of the spells mana cost."
x% should be somethign around 5-10% and y% around 50-75%.
I heard they are already tweaking the skill for the next update.
imo we shouldn't be recycling spells that dota heroes already have into new heroes, as i think a lot of people would like to see the majority of DotA heroes in HoN.'
guess we'll wait for the tweak
I actually think this spell is useful during early game, especially with hero's with low mana and high mana costing skills with a low cooldown such as Dark Lady, hammerstorm and Jereziah. It wouldn't be the first time these heroes could get first blood at lvl 1/3. After that the skill becomes less and less useful, but some first blood situations are really cool. It is true that these heroes could buy magic regen at lvl 1, but nothing beats 3 Hammerstorm stuns in succession when chasing/initiating at lvl 1/3 (and getting first blood). The skill can be devasting during early game and can be used to harass with specific set-ups and the right time/place. Though if people are a bit more professional it is already a lot harder to actually find a use for the Grace of the Nymph and other than these specific situations it is indeed pretty useless.
Perhaps the skill would be a bit more useful if the cooldown wouldn't be that long or if there are more heroes that have a low mana pool and skills that cost a lot of mana. If they change the skill I would like it to be a supportive spell for sure and I like the idea of something similar to Obsidian's passive.
Last edited by Unclejack; 07-22-2009 at 10:24 PM.
If her secondary skill maybe had a small, additional benefit (heals target for X, restores X mana over X seconds for target, grants +X magic armor for X seconds, anything) it would be fine imo, but the additional benefit would have to scale quite drastically to give an incentive to level it beyond level 1.
So yeah, liking HankyPanky's suggestion.
The skill is useful. My friend plays nymph all the time, and if I go veno/slither(400 mana cost for ult on an agi hero) this skill is very helpful. Also very helpful when I'm moon queen and I've been harassing with moon beams early early game, and now I don't have mana for eclipse (or we planned it out so I could and still eclipse). It's really a perfect support spell.
That being said, I have never played nymph, and I know he never levels the skill up early, and we only have good coordination because we're always using voice chat.
Hanky's remakes aoe is way too small, you can even be in the same lane and not be within 500 units of each other. 800 is much more reasonable. Although, I don't know how imba ob's aura will be on a non ob hero.
i see nymph's ability as a gimped version of lich's dark ritual, that spell gives more mana, has lower cooldown, and is a complete deny. only thing good about nymph's grace is that you can cast it on someone else -___-
Man, Nymph is already a very good hero, I played with her 2 times and was the major support (early)/carrier (late) of my team. I think thats OK the way it is.
Nymph's Grace should get an additional effect: +10/15/20/25% damage. This way it synergizes will with nymph herself -- selfbuff after stun and autoattack away and works better as buff on allies with can decide if they want to keep the damage bonus or cast a spell for free which takes the bonus away.
Originally Posted by laserblade
also, lich's nova didn't heal if he stood close to it, so giving the nymph MORE mana returned would be a little silly imo
first time I tried her I thought she was incredibly limited and nearly useless, but I was playing with feeders.. since then I've learned to love her, one of my favorite heroes right now
she has so much synergy with other heroes
imo if you buff grace by much ittl turn into a really good spell.
Yea lich's nova isnt as good in terms of ally support, but it was better in terms of harassing and chasing XP.
maybe you could swap her tp with ezalors recall and make its a normal skill and make grace her ultimate but give it the level 4 cooldown at level 6 or something .
Dunno if she really needs that much of an over haul, as she does do a good job with the heal/damage along with the zeal ability.
but as inconmon said, Kotl's chakra out classes nymphs grace by far as the cooldown is much lower, allowing for more flexible use.
imo if you kept it the same she'd still be a good hero as all of her spells definitely have its uses. maybe it could just give "free spells" based on mana cost. i.e thunderbringers arclightning attack thing could get more casts de to low mana cost, while someones ult would take up all charges. (as you level it you get more charges that act like pseudo mana, except it cant be burned away by attacks.. unless you purge it i suppose)
iono im generally happy with how nymph is XP
I have to say I agree with this... This and buffing/tweaking CM's ult...
Helps later on with heroes like KRAKEN who have 3 active abilities and no mana base for which to use them. Doesn't help that 2 of them are spammy skills either. However, I do feel it's underpowered, but I mean, it's a 1 point wonder. Up for every push or defend, it shouldn't be costing ANY mana however.
All of her other skills are extremely powerful, so a weak skill is necessary to keep her in balance.
Actually I feel that Enchantress is waaaaay better than Nymph in HoN
Both can heal and slow/stun, but Enchantress with 2-3 Centaurs and Forest Trolls with Nets was very powerful...
This Nymph is a support character that does not support as well as the other support heroes like Demented Shaman or Hellbringer for example.