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The reply and quote were posted in a tired state and frankly were not meant to counter you or to post against you but rather to add to your points. Sorry for the misunderstanding.Originally Posted by Vascariz
Your point is quite valid however as you can't just completely ignore lower tiers of play and it seems that they aren't, as the recent Ra change would suggest, so the changes, if they come, would be something that doesn't make the hero an Auto-win in lower tier games, like EW seems to be currently.
Apologiesand thanks :P thought I was going crazy!
As someone posted earlier, the rampage solution is reducing his damage and increasing his utility. Remove the damage aspect of his ult and increase it's duration significantly (let's say up to 5.5 sec).
This will make him a threat to messing up a cometitive teams position play. While in pubs, it will make ramp play more team dependent.
I shall remind people to be constructive in their posts, regardless of what they think of someone's input.
Also remember to explain why you think certain changes are needed, instead of getting bogged down in the details of the changes (which is something that belongs in the Suggestions forum and not here).
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If the enemy has any wards or an ounce of common sense they'll start hugging a tower when they see/suspect that Ramp is charging them. Removing the magic immunity will only cause more certain deaths to endangered rhinos out there.
And I personally don't mind about his stunlock combo, since everything he does is single target (except the activated slow from W, but it scarcely hits more than one hero).
Heroes that only have single target spells such as Succubus and Rampage are by rule inferior to ones with AoE, unless they provide some heavy counterpick power like Parasite.
+1. Rampage has the potential of making an impact in competitive play by allowing a team to change the dynamics of an engagement through his charge and displacement ultimate. There definitely needs to be a further focus on these aspects of play and away from his 1 v 1 charge and gank capabilities.
To those looking for a nerf, please realise this is balancing for COMPETITIVE play. Not sure how these nerf-seeking posts stay in the thread. They do not explain how he needs to be nerfed in a competitive environment at all.
All these reasons are only valid in pub play and not in the competitive scene.
Besides his 3rd doing doing waaaay too much damage at some point, some of you really want to undo the changes that made him a bit less worse to play?
A rampage that places a debuff icon on the target he's charging, can only drag someone with ult (as in, he can't attack while ulting) and no magic immunity while charging (or not lingering for a bit, it's been a while I don't fully remember)? At that point about everyone agreed he needed to be buffed (or made the old ramp again). That was before treewalking even I think.
Does anyone knows his exact iteration around that time that made most agree he was bad?
I'd rather see him have treewalking again, and if he proved to be too strong with it, be balanced around that.
Awareness, game sense, communication and coordination are some of the best counters that can (and should in most cases) shut rampage down.
I would be upset if rampage would be nerfed. Just because some pubs lack the sense to buy wards (and see him coming most of the time), buy and use tps (to get out quickly when you're low after a fight ((since rampage can be charging you meanwhile)), and to tp when he's towerdiving your teammates) or call miss/see that rampage just died (and he will very likely charge a lane from out of the well), so in general: Lack the coordination and sense to deal with rampage effectively, DOES NOT WARRANT NERFS.
This is a team game.
Judging by the feedback here the majority of people seem to agree his effectiveness is heavily based on his opponents awareness,vision,communication.
If anything had to be changed (which I feel it does not) but for arguments sake then I believe he should get a couple minor buffs so we see him more often in the comp scene.
Please visit my thread if your tired of not having any pants http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=401955
Has anyone made a cogent argument yet as to why he shouldnt get the same cliffwalking/treewalking that spiritbreaker has? He has no shot at seeing competitive play until there is some way for his charges to go unnoticed by a team with wards up.
Well if you want to bypass wards, lane him with Revenant. Charge, rev invis' you, zoooom. It only makes him slightly better though as he's still pretty counterable.
Because this isn't a suggestion forum but a balance forum? Or so I've been told.
Since I don't like the idea of giving him an activable magic immunity I would instead give his second skill a ghost marcher type active effect.
Stoping this here wouldn't be bad I think it is still not enough for competitive gameplay.
Umm you had the right idea of adding more utility to the charge and reducing the damage. But removing magic immunity is just ridiculous as it will make the ability useless in competitive play. You simply have to cast one of many stuns to completely nullify his charge, so there's no point adding any of that extra utility simply because no-one will charge in competitive play.
I highly recommending using paragraphs and spacing to make your points clearer rather than simply using different shades of colour.
On a final note I would like to thanks you for your time and to excuse my possibly poor english as it is not my main language.
From a pub-only perspective, the only change I would like to see is his damage out put from bash before level 7 is insanly high. Not only will it chip off a pretty big chuck of your life expecially if your intel, but the knock back slow allows another melee hit with ease so much that it borderline OP for early game.
@Vascariz
And by the way, yeah this isn't exactly the place for "suggestion" but at the same it is. Balancing is all about that. Just By saying: "his ult does too damage" I suggest lowering his ult damage. If my post is really out of place I'm sorry and I would gladly accept it being moved to the proper subforum.
I've read the forum rules.
#1. AVOID SUGGESTIONS.
But seeing how nowhere this is going with "balancing" I felt pushing the conversation in a "new direction" would make thing move a little bit.
In fact.... forget all I said... I'll remove my post myself and repost it in suggestions. If you like my idea come and vote!
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...2#post15025682
Last edited by Streepe; 04-03-2012 at 11:37 PM.
s2 nerf rampage now soooo op! he can just charge and drag me and get many lasthits altogh i play tremb omg. what is he carry? tank? initiator??? nerf now hes so op owns every game i play agaiinst ramp
I think his bash is too reliable. His DotA counter part's bash was a % chance (though his other skills behaved different too). There are HoN heroes who used to have % based procs in DotA who went to a count-down charge based system.
I think changing how his Horn Strike behaves would be good. It's a reliable knock-back and stun with bonus damage that requires you to simply auto attack. It's a very strong free instant harassment at low levels. I think this gives him a bit too much of an advantage in his golden era in the game which makes it easier for him compared to other gankers to evolve into a late-game carry/counter carry. He's a jack of all trades (anti-carry, semi-carry, initiator, ganker, roamer) but doesn't seem to be taxed enough in the carry department.
I'm sorry but Rampage is too overpowered. Charging from any point on the map, then unleashing a what feels like 10 seconds perma stun and all while having sick auto attack damage and speed. I don't see how it is balanced, he has the strongest last hit in the early game, 3 stuns, a slow, huge auto damage and hp, magic immunity when charging. ITS RIDICULOUS.
I think that this thread has run its course. You can't have a discussion about pubstomping heroes without pubbers coming in here with their pubmentality and claiming that the hero is too strong without even bothering to read the thread.
I thought the comments along the lines of "it feels like he has 20 seconds of stun" are particularly insightful. :P
Rampage is fine. His win % is fine. If you are in a game against Rampage and aren't warding then you deserve to lose. The only way I would like to see him changed is to add spiritbreakers ability to charge over cliffs/trees and then rebalance his numbers based on the buff. I think it really is the only way he is going to see comp. play.
Charge is possibly the worst initiation skill in the game. It is dead easy to see it coming a mile away. Against any decent team it will often lead to the charging rampage to be way out of position and counter ganked by the opposite team.
Rampage is OP. I don't want to sit here and argue with idiots that think because hes not seen in comp games hes therefore underpowered. I don't want to argue with morons who think he is OP because his charge rapes in pub games.
Rampage is op because rampage is op. Its pretty much as simple as 1+1=2. Somewhere along the line people started justifying his retarded amount of burst damage because hey its hon what hero doesnt have retarded op dmg. Irrelevent.
Combining retarded burst damage with high disable time is a balance nightmare. His weakness is lacking aoe. In a 5v5 game, (and this should also be considered common sense) 1 out of 5 being op will not and logically should not constitute a victory for his team every time. There are too many other factors in the game. Rampages only weakness is just that: Thank god this is a team game.
Heres a hint for all you idiots out there saying rampage is easily dealt with in team fights btw - use his charge as a 400range blinkstrike instead of opening with it like a mouthbreather charging past the tower into the enemies trap. You don't need it for anything other than that. You have ridiculous movespeed, a snare, a bash, his ult. Save charge for say Glacius' ice imprisonment (its a spell and last time i checked you will leap while iced doing damage stunning and leaping)
Oh, and stop getting treads and vanguard on this hero for the love of god. Phase boots into bkb every game. Rampage's first item every game is and always should be a bkb.
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