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"Rampage is op because rampage is op."
Brought to you by the same school of thought that "valk is balanced because valk is balanced".
how can one possibly hope to argue with logic like that :-/Originally Posted by Rayne_Mayne
I have to say I really like rampage and would love to see him usable in comp games. The changes suggested for charge (cliff/treewalking) and an extended duration on ult, minus some/all damage increase his utility whilst (imo) not pushing him into OP tier
The only thing which annoys is, that when he charges you once, which you often can't see and hits you later, you mostlikely dead, no matter if you can blink or not. His disable and damage in comparison is a little bit too overpowered i guess, just nerf his 3rd a little bit maybe he should'nt push heroes that far so they can go on minding their business again
I am far from being good, but it seems to me than rampage is rather unbalanced. I am not able to say what has to be changed, but this hero is way to easy to play and efficient in the same time. I can understand than a competitive team can readily deal with it, because his only AoE skill is a slow and you can dodge the charge with tp, tablet (void?). However, most of players play pub games were coordination is the biggest problem and the rampage player can only charge, hit ult go back and kill the player without being attacked. So I think Rampage should be a bit nerf for the well being of noobs.
Moreover, I can't understand the players who think that a hero isn't overpowered if he is rarely seen in competitive games. Imho, Rampage only need a knockback with AoE to be seen a lot more, but in this case, its hard to denie that he will be really too powerfull. My point is that comp teams need heroes with AoE skills, because they have, in general, good coordination and positionning, but it doesn't make the other ones weaks or balanced for pubgames.
Sorry for my shitty english.
Facts generated from popular opinion are always the best kind of facts.
That is simply not true. If your team actually bothered to do things like spend money on Ring of the Teacher/Abyssal Skull and Bulwark everyone on your team should have a bonus of 7-9 armor already.Rampage gibs any hero without an escape mechanism (holy **** remember when heroes in this game didnt all have escape mechanisms) in any teamfight regardless of what you or your team does. The semi counter is a nullstone which is expensive and already a stretch to demand to deal with one hero.
Stormspirit also easily disables Rampages ability to function, since you can easily break his ultimate and ruin it for him.
Further, Superior Disables ALWAYS are capable of interrupting his charge.
Further, Vision and Portalkeys allow for you to work around his initiation.
Further, not feeding him/not losing ALL YOUR LANES means he won't be able to just jump on anyone, and he will actually have to expect being attacked, and possibly dying.
Even further - Rampage has no ability to get to anyone once his charge is down. That's why tablet is so strong against him.
The world is flat because the world is flat - that's about as correct or analytical as your statement.Rampage is op because rampage is op
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It would be really hard to make a hero not fitting such ridiculous qualification of "balanced", wouldn't it?
Sorry but this is precisely a type of argument "Ramp is balanced because it is balanced", because there is always Sheepstick....
A hero that deals physical damage and only physical damage being countered by armor? Pft, no. Any hero can be called balanced if you add armor. This is the same reason Thunderbringer OP. You have to buy magic armor and that OP.
I tried to imitate the horrible logic in this thread and I can't be that wrong. I failed.
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"All they do is expound their store of knowledge. They excite themselves with their ranting; their disapproval swells them with a feeling of importance and sick victory, they thrive on spoiling the pleasure and trashing the creativity of others."
The Minister shares her opinion of critics. ~ Kino's Journey
Rampage apparently got picked in some of the dreamhon quals. Haven't seen the match, but I'd like to.
I'm judged by my wild image a lot
And everybody seems to think I have a sinister plot
I do! Be offended by every sentence I jot
I got some militant thoughts, and you ain't killin' 'em off!
So listen...
I find he suffers a lot when the teams decide to group up. If they enemy groups up before you get enough farm, you potential is greatly diminished. Other than getting tougher, he doesn't scale too well. He is great against less organized teams that take longer to group up, and allow you to roam/gank, hence why he is so strong in pubs. OP is pub, UP is higher mmrs.
Rampage has the potential to be extremely devastating if paired up with the right team imo. He needs to end the game relatively early and thus, should be used with push teams since the more towers you destroy, the more map control you have and Rampage is all about map travel/control. He is also fantastic with Jeraziah's magic immunity. if you don't have those 2 things, I wouldn't recommend picking Rampage.
In mid-late game teamfights, his role is like that of Batrider in dota, I believe. Batrider sees quite a bit of competitive play mainly because of his ultimate (which is the same thing as rampage's). However, Batrider can blink/push book and drag the target over cliffs, etc. So you can have batrider potentially displacing a hero by 1500 units over all types of terrain, which makes him very very strong if given the chance.
Typically Batrider won't get to do the full amount, of course. Batrider will typically pushbook in, use ultimate and blink out. This is still considered desirable. To be able to move an enemy a portal key's blink distance is powerful. On top of that, it is also very hard to counter because enemies will get less than a second to stun you before you drag a comrade away.
I feel if something similar was given to Rampage where he could displace heroes by such a LARGE amount and do it as FAST as Batrider does, he could see some competitive play. AFAIK, the chain breaks if rampage moves 500 units away from the target and you can't use blink/push book because of this. Maybe this can be changed to give him the 'more utility' everyone wants out of him (he will have to go a different item path though); as in, the change does not get broken if he himself moves more than 500 units away from the target (continues to drag hero) but gets broken otherwise.
Last edited by vvolfster; 04-28-2012 at 08:27 AM.
When life gives you lemons...You should ask why didn't it give you a bloody sword?
The difference here is that Batrider can clear creeps fast and thus farms a lot faster than Rampage too. Again in solo pub games Rampage shines because he punishes teams with no wards and bad players who can't grasp how the hero could easily be countered. It's not rocket science! You play against RA? You build -Armor, Shrunken. Against Defiler? HP and Barbed Armor. Against Jera? Nullfire. Armadon/Rampage? You build Tablets, Nulls, Voids and Armor. And the list just goes on. It's not like it's some secret knowledge either. Not to mention the heroes that just flat-out counter him.
As for making him competitively viable, just reduce his early game damage and give him better scaling ability than the one he currently has so that he can act as a proper carry. He'll still be kited like no tomorrow, Charge cast-time is so long that that itself makes it a rubbish close-up in a real 5v5 skirmish and getting it off at times without Shrunken can be questionable.
That is a ridiculous assumption. Our direction of balance is NOT toward making all heroes equally good in a pure 1vs1 fight during all stages of the game. As if that would be possible in a game which allows for the heroes to scale this much, and in a game with this amount of items.
The Balance Rules (which is YOUR responsibility to be informed about) explicitly states "The game is balanced around Forest of Caldavar 5vs5 Normal Mode.". If you want to discuss those rules, feel free to do so, but this is not the thread for that.
And this statement goes against everything this forum stands for.Rampage is op because rampage is op
If you can't explain it, don't expect the rest of us agree with you.
Last edited by Ekamo; 05-02-2012 at 06:38 PM.
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Batrider can't use Dagger / teleport with his ultimate active without breaking the lasso. :S He can however use Force Staff and have allies Force Staff which Rampage simply cannot.
Lol? Do you have any reading comprehension at all?
Why / where the hell would you even begin to assume im talking about heroes 1 on 1 fighting?
take any two heroes. Glacius vs Night hound. These heroes should be balanced on a 1 to 1 scale. Glacius functions alot differently in role. His impact is much different then nighthounds. But his level of impact in his role (his ability to support and dominate early) should not over-cede Night hounds ability to dps and carry late game. In any given game the glacius that wards and babysits early has the exact same impact as the night hound that carried the game with 400gpm.
This is like the simplest of game concepts. You and that other moron that quoted me proved only that you both have 0 actual understanding of this game, and only spout here-say you read from other smarter / dumb competitive players.
The fact that you then come in and decide to delete my posts because you're not intelligent enough to understand them shows alot about how this forum is run. Whats the point of even trying to give s2 insight into their game when they appoint the most mouthbreathing individuals as moderators.
Its like a million little China worshipping babies are in charge. Its as bad as when china thought tremble was completely balanced and just deleted anything that disagreed with him. that **** was HILARIOUS LOL.
If I told you the world was round I wouldn't have to explain it to you.
Its simple. I'm sorry that me jokingly saying that seemed to make everyone's brain explode because they were all too stupid to understand it.
Don't worry though, you guys win. There is 0 point for me to even try to post on this forum if kids like you are going to run away with the discussion. Maybe I'll post again in a couple months when one of you says something that isn't regurgitated stupid.
It was a whole page of stupid, that's why.
This thread really shouldn't even be opened anymore. Rampage is a pubstomp hero and as such people are just going to keep sprouting nonsense about his so called imbalances, and if anything, S2 might cater to these players (like they did with Amun-RA) if they see the balance section flooded with such complaints.
I'll never forget what I felt that day...
I, want to be a Hero of Justice!
Well if the value of your input is "Hero_X is op, it needs to be nerfed because I say so" then I'm sure we'll do just fine without. Frankly it's simple. If it's so obvious that something is OP, the devs will deal with it. If you got suggestions for it you go to suggestion forums. Heck I wouldn't be that much against changing Rampage so that it wouldn't be so frustrating for people to play against but it certainly doesn't mean that it is OP when it's frustrating to play against.
And as for the balance discussion you gotta give numbers, weight the advantages, disadvantages, counters, peak-times as to find the actual source of imbalance. "Rampage is OP because it's OP" does not help at all, especially when it's clearly pointed out that he does have disadvantages and counters. And even then people have pointed out the possible sources of the imbalance so unless you can add to that with some insight your post does not hold any value at all as you might have just as well posted "+1 4char" and you might realize that it is not helpful at all. Making helpful posts isn't that hard either. Simple as 1+1=2.
Last edited by Farosarg; 05-03-2012 at 01:56 AM.
explain why top teams almost never pick him then, if he's so OP?
If you can't provide an argument for WHY Rampage is OP, then you are treading on very light ground really.
I mean sure, Rampage dominates early game, because he is all about physical damage, and physical armor is nearly non-existant for a lot of heroes at that stage, and most teams like to give up early, and don't bother countering that, but that hardly makes him OP.
It just means that lots of people get to see him mostly during his strongest stage of the game (which is early game ganks really - he doesn't offer as much to teamfights as other gankers that dominate midgame do).
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Please use the report post function
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You forget that these people might also be shutting down Rampage pretty damn often.
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