[2.5.14] Patch Reception

[Dragoneit]

I like the new Vindi... now he can acctually carry
Maybe the E skill should get a little boost like "Vindicator will silence for 2 secs any hero that damages him (if u get hit by the spines of armadon he will be silenced)

[[0g]aeowulf]

I like the new Vindi... now he can acctually carry
Maybe the E skill should get a little boost like "Vindicator will silence for 2 secs any hero that damages him (if u get hit by the spines of armadon he will be silenced)

I don't understand how you can say this when it was easier to carry (just more difficult to farm) on the old vindicator.

[Dragoneit]

I don't understand how you can say this when it was easier to carry (just more difficult to farm) on the old vindicator.

Na the Attack speed bonus is pretty nice... now the first skill that has a pretty low cd and he win 3 int for each hero you hit (You can stack it) u can get +18 int spaming Q into a single hero ... The manacost is 70 so u can get +6 dmg in the line just trowing it once every 25 sec (is not like him needs mana at lvl 1,2,3,4,5) +40 attack speed is a lot he can hit really fast with steamboots...

Like i said for me he only needs a little buff in E making it silence all heroes that do any kind of damage to vindi

[Alten]

This thread's name should probably be changed, if people are going to use it to discuss every new patch instead of just 2.5.14.

[Fen__]

Na the Attack speed bonus is pretty nice... now the first skill that has a pretty low cd and he win 3 int for each hero you hit (You can stack it) u can get +18 int spaming Q into a single hero ... The manacost is 70 so u can get +6 dmg in the line just trowing it once every 25 sec (is not like him needs mana at lvl 1,2,3,4,5) +40 attack speed is a lot he can hit really fast with steamboots...

Like i said for me he only needs a little buff in E making it silence all heroes that do any kind of damage to vindi

Beside the fact that 40 attack speed is a small bonus since any carry hero with ias got more DL, Madman, DM, Draconis, Pred, Nomad etc, if you will cast 70 mana low dmg nuke every 25 sec you will run out of mana after 2 minutes + you will be defenseless on lane since you wont have any nuke/mana when it will be rly required.

[[LsE]Hsssh]

Lets take an eye at some actual sports and see how stagnant certain systems/strategies are:

In basketball: the triangle, with jordan, or what every other team in basketball attempts to accomplish by purchasing three high-ticket stars with a mediocre-to-average supporting cast.
In hockey: usage of the neutral zone trap, the devils riding on brodeur's back to multiple champs, and the creation of the brodeur rule because the officials were trying to force an alteration in the meta.
In baseball: baseball is terrible is a terrible sport not worth watching.
In football: go giants.

We're talking about years of the same crap in basketball and hockey. Jesus.

I was about to post "apples and oranges" but then i realized that its more like apples and planets.

[Antimodus]

vindicator. Na the Attack speed bonus is pretty nice... now the first skill that has a pretty low cd and he win 3 int for each hero you hit (You can stack it) u can get +18 int spaming Q into a single hero ... The manacost is 70 so u can get +6 dmg in the line just trowing it once every 25 sec (is not like him needs mana at lvl 1,2,3,4,5) +40 attack speed is a lot he can hit really fast with steamboots...

Old Vindi's perma unpurgable bonus int would get to 40-50 lategame easily. INT is worth a lot more than +AS. The +25 INT component item is worth 2700 gold, and +55 AS warpcleft is worth 2100 gold. Do the math.
Now you have like maybe +15 INT on average from his Q, if not purged, and +40AS passive, so that barely even compares to what old vindi would have as a completely passive bonus lategame, in terms of carrying power. And for this near-worthless exchange, he has lost the passive silencing aura = perhaps the strongest single non-ultimate skill in the game.

TL;DR Old Vindi was a more powerful hardcarry; and also about ten times more useful as a situational pick besides his hard-carrying ability.

[PlayeroJ]

I like the new Vindi... now he can acctually carry
Maybe the E skill should get a little boost like "Vindicator will silence for 2 secs any hero that damages him (if u get hit by the spines of armadon he will be silenced)

Someone spray a barrage of bullets into my manhood did I just read this?!

New Vindicator is god awful. I've had the displeasure of reading some people say that the first ability got buffed and that the third got nerfed (or something around this line of reasoning). The first ability is nerfed and the third ability is mutilated. Removing mana drain and over half the damage on the ability was not worth the new CD or temporary INT charges, so you would expect an over all buff to his third ability to compensate, but that gets raped up the ass.

I'm sorry but I find it insanely aggrivating that this was the product of months of discussion/work as it just came across to me as an insanely lazy change. Like they just didn't give enough of a damn about Vindicator to have done a legitimate rework. Just tweaked 2 of his spells to suck. Same stats, same movement speed, same modifier on second ability as if it was the same old vindicator.... without the strengths anymore.

[[0g]aeowulf]

Q: The first abilities only saving grace is that its the same large aoe with good range but it has a lower cooldown and no way to counteract its effects. It requires less skill overall with a higher base potential, and lower ceiling than Sage's Lore used well. Overall its a nerf to the players with an ounce of game IQ.

All old Vindicator players should max Q, lane with mana pots/nymphora what have you, and harass people from max range all game so the S2 version is as 'hated' as the DotA version.

E: Just an embarrassment. If Silencer was tankier maybe this would be acceptable, but hes not and combo derps like pebbles and behemoth will just kill him in teamfights without having to land an autoattack.

You can build him tanky and be ignored because you're not putting out as much damage, but then your passive is still useless. I think S2 knew how bad it was, and thats why they gave it a pity 40 AS.

[foxmindedguy]

Although I do admit that his E is completely useless in most cases (and would like another revisit on it), the hero still can counter-initiate by pushing R. His niche still exists, so I don't understand why people are blowing things out of proportion.

Other than that, I think he still dishes out good amounts of damage with his 40 attack speed and +15 int. Yes, I know before Vindi could have had 40-50 int, but that means he should have been around 25 opponent deaths. Here, even if you have been not an active part of the team-fights and what have you, you still can steal +15 int from them.

So there are pluses and minuses, although the minuses are more currently but they could be adjusted with time.

[DivineAlice]

Before with old Mirage Strike. Hitting one person with just the illusions. Assume level 4 of Mirage and Wanderer.

180 damage + 200% your attack damage. You do not go into agro-range and have three seconds of invisibility.

Old version of Mirage Strike and hitting people compared to True Strike.

180 damage + 400% of your attack damage.

180 damage + 200% of your attack damage. 80 attack speed for three seconds.

What one looks best in all but rare cases of the game? What one looks like a retarded amount of Burst? If you had Phased boots you could spike people for 600 god damn physical damage at level 8.

New versions that you hate because of ignorance.

100 + 400% your attack damage.

200 + 200% your attack damage. 80 attack speed for three seconds.

You can still spike people for a stupid amount of physical damage at level 8 but now you have an option. True Strike now allows you to man up and wail on someone. This is ignoring the fact that is is safer to fight people with Mirage Strike because you can hide where you are going in and get stunned less. You are so god damn clueless about this hero (and every other hero in general) that it pisses me off hearing you talk about how this was a stupid change and how it wasn't good or whatever you are going on about.

Love the way you have described Nomad. You just forgot that this 600 physical spike was all he had. I love this "man up" phrase. So catchy yet false. It's not manning up, it's going apeshit like a berzerker with a measly +20 dmg (12,5 % from wanderer with this attack speed ). You are so god-damn clueless about this game, trying some cheap propaganda to support the changes that are UNREASONABLE. Tell us please who of competitive players raised the idea of nerfing nomad?

It's another independent s2's idea. Better focus on doing your job balancing the game without releasing bugged **** as it happens so often these days. The reason why all people used mirage and not true strike was a simple fact that true strike was and still is a crap until you get 400++ gpm and mass items. Ok, face some other carry then, I bet it's not enough.

Look at the hero as an entity. Nomad's skillset is a crap now vs players whose IQ is not a two-digit (wards, dust, gem + so ****in hard to pull -off animation cancelling).

-80 dmg from a better skill for +20 dmg for a worse skill is defenitely a buff and the reward for "manning up" Pathetic.

Waiting for friday's new patch. I expect some more brilliant reworks/ balancing stuff.

[[S2]ElementUser]

Although I do admit that his E is completely useless in most cases (and would like another revisit on it), the hero still can counter-initiate by pushing R. His niche still exists, so I don't understand why people are blowing things out of proportion.

1) Cooldown
2) If you get caught out of position, you're useless.
3) It won't stop a Pebbles from insta-gibbing you in most cases because his spell sequence is faster than your reflex. You probably can't save your ally either.

[[GM]NakedMouse]

Tell us please who of competitive players raised the idea of nerfing nomad?

It's another independent s2's idea. Better focus on doing your job balancing the game without releasing bugged **** as it happens so often these days.

That guy you're raging at? He's not an S2 employee, and has no say in the balancing or coding of the game. He's a GM, a volunteer for the RAP feature. When it comes to balance or gameplay issues, he's just another player exactly like you, albeit with a different opinion.

Why don't you chill the **** out bro? Sorry they nerfed your favorite pubstomper, **** happens. He was a retarded hero with a zero-risk harassment skill that basically won him most solo vs. solo lanes. Even Nome, his original designer, admitted regretting the design decisions that went into him. Now he might be slightly less retarded, and a bit more balanced.

[Salem1]

Even Nome, his original designer, admitted regretting the design decisions that went into him. Now he might be slightly less retarded, and a bit more balanced.

Did Nome regret every single freaking hero he made? it almost seems like it. Nome knew this and that would be imba/screwed before it was released all the damn time. So why did it get released then...

[HonStinks]

So what is the general consensus of this competitive scene on the new Vindicator? Or what is the reasoning that S2 has followed that lead to this specific incarnation of the hero? Was there some rampant sleep deprivation at S2s office that prompted them to make vindicator into a potent anesthetic?

This "remake" was months in the making (I doubt it was actively worked on though, much like the rest of the game), yet the outcome is so incredibly lazy, and very, very bland.

[[DRD]china]

I was about to post "apples and oranges" but then i realized that its more like apples and planets.

Is the claim that coaches and players alike are locked into a specific mindset/playstyle, similar to moba teams, too far-fetched? If you have any idea on what goes on in professional sports, you'll see that coaches are (on too often a basis) static in the way they play. The same kind of offense, the same kind of defense, which falls apart in almost rock-papers-scissors like faction, barring the very limited alterations made to accommodate new opponents. Which, again, is very similar to how moba strategies evolves from game to game. Swapping out heroes, match-ups, etc. Metagame is the most prevalent way to play.

Not that you would know. I've long resolved that you are either an idiot or a troll.

[Alten]

Is the claim that coaches and players alike are locked into a specific mindset/playstyle, similar to moba teams, too far-fetched? If you have any idea on what goes on in professional sports, you'll see that coaches are (on too often a basis) static in the way they play. The same kind of offense, the same kind of defense, which falls apart in almost rock-papers-scissors like faction, barring the very limited alterations made to accommodate new opponents. Which, again, is very similar to how moba strategies evolves from game to game. Swapping out heroes, match-ups, etc. Metagame is the most prevalent way to play.

Not that you would know. I've long resolved that you are either an idiot or a troll.

An eloquent way to put my frustrations of the past two years >.<

[[LsE]Hsssh]

Not that you would know. I've long resolved that you are either an idiot or a troll.

Can i be both?

Is the claim that coaches and players alike are locked into a specific mindset/playstyle, similar to moba teams, too far-fetched?

Probably it wouldn't, but then people aren't complaining that you(as in competitive players) are locked into a specific mindset/playstyle, its lack of it.

[MagicAir`p]

Needs some sort of buff to his aura in the form of survivability. I propose Dota Antimage's passive 50% magic resist. Would be perfectly fine.

[[eR]Ekamo]

This thread feels slightly irrelevant now.

Thread closed.