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So, what's on your mind?
Obviously Vindi will be a huge topic for discussion, but remember to cover the other heroes also.
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Lots of "Hey look, we don't really know why you aren't picking them, so here's some free stats" changes.
Vindi rework made his E crap, which makes it kinda obvious that they didn't like it at all.
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I mean, we know why they aren't picking most heroes, its that the comp players play far too safe and anything that isn't what they're used to is ****.Originally Posted by Skyve
And exactly why do you think S2 will ever completely revert a change that has been thought through and going on for months?
You might not agree with the change, but reverting it is not realistic, so it is not even worth mentioning that you want him back to his former iteration.
Last edited by Ekamo; 03-09-2012 at 04:52 PM.
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Please use the report post function
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lol. What a terrible argument. This might have been thought through by 14 dudes for a while so thousands of people who liked the old vindicator are just wrong in even making a peep when they see a beloved original character deleted from the game and replaced with another humdrum carry garbage?
What an inane and contentless statement, the old vindicator must have gotten quite a few kills on you.
S'pose you could use your mod powers to delete this and *silence* me and the rest of the community that is irritated about this. It would be the most silencing that's going to happen for a while.
Reverting it is as realistic as saying "Sorry we were wrong" and reverting it.
Profoundly easy to do. Accidents happen. Alienating the base repeatedly with competitors who have more respect for the grandfather of the genre is not realistic if you want to stay in business.
Sure Vindi is my #1 and the changes discourage me quite a bit because he was my xfer of my dota fav Silencer...
But what bothers me the most about this is the reasoning I've been reading from various posts, where these changes are supposed to make him a more all around character since he can no longer "shut down" certain other heroes.
But wasn't his purpose to shut down those heroes in exchange for being so damn soft with no mobile CC's? Sure he can shut down pyro/ws/dw/pebs/panda/mk with ease... but wasn't that his purpose? Saying it was good to take that one feature away to make him an equal opponent to a broader spectrum of the heroes is ridiculous. But if this is going to be the case, please change trembles ult so that he can't completely shut down support heroes and while we're at it, change faydes ult/hold for completely shutting down anything that isn't str based.
=O
I dare say the majority of those thousands of members haven't put in any serious thought into WHY this change happened.
Disregarding that completely, I can say right now that Vindicator will most likely NEVER return back to his previous form, simply because of how badly designed S2 thinks he was. There is nothing that says though that there won't be several tweaks to this new design, and any input on this would be most valuable.
Why would you claim that I am mad at the old Vindicator? Why would you claim that I have any reason to "silence" the community? Hell, I am part of the community if anything.
Last edited by Ekamo; 03-10-2012 at 09:54 AM.
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Please use the report post function
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I bristle at this. If S2 is wrong about this, it is not our place to lie down and take it, and the intense reaction to the vindicator change (15 pages on general at the moment; overwhelmingly negative) is an indicator that vindicator's destruction is mourned.
Now his Q is a brainless spam as many as you can as fast as you can. We had that before
Now his E is abject filth of a skill. +AS and hits autoattackers? Vindy was not designed to counter those at all before. Inexplicably his focus shifts from being good at countering the brainless spell stunlock spam and giving a bit more tempo to team fights, to being terrible at countering autoattackers and even failing at that when caught up in the mindless stunspam.
Secondly, the visceral enjoyment of the character is wrapped up in permanently taking intelligence from the enemy team. This is gone and shuffled to a roid form, as opposed to a calm building of power. We have heroes with roidsbefore.
And somehow take solace that S2, while chopping off the arms legs and soul of this hero has regulated him to an ult on a stick or another carry? We had those
And we sure as hell had enough carries.
:chro:
:fors:
Among others.
We. Lost. A. Hero.
Because s2 did a poor job on E Glyph rework, and s2 often spends an excessive amount of time reaching a failed conclusion. And to turn him into a pure hard carry was ridiculous in this meta game. Its as if the people who reworked him have no communication with the people who create new heroes or change balance. Or perhaps there was plenty of communication and they decided a combo breaker was not ok and fights should end as fast as possible... sigh.
He literally has Nothing to bring to the team except his ulti and damage, and he take a very long time to bring that damage. Sure you can say what more than you need than that, but thats not how the game works. Even flint can mini stun or slow. The only upside is his damage items are int items with disables and stuff on them. Hes a less powerful int version of flint who uses the items repulsor would, but does the job worse than either of them.
Not that my opinion matters in the slightest.
And Gravekeeper is still the worst hero in the game.
Last edited by Ogrim; 03-10-2012 at 03:53 PM.
Maybe they won't, but they nerfed Vindicator from occasionally a decent pickup to complete trash. I dot think we'll ever see Vindicator in his current form in competetive play ever. S2 must really have hated him to want to do that to him.
Also I mean no offense and I'm not attempting to troll, but if months of work has given him a trash nuke and taken away his only good aspects it seems like a waste of time, if any time was actually spent.
Just like the competetive scene and any semblance of balance, I have migrated to DotA 2.
oh so funny that we have already seen him getting picked up a couple of times.
So funny that if it was the old version of Vindicator in those games Vindicator would have done much better.
Also funny that you don't seem to realize this.
Stats are like women in bikinis, they are interesting to look at however they don't show you everything.
Thanks for the thread. Crossposting this from Balance Dump:
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HotBL change will affect its strength over time, and should help push it into more of an up-front deflection item instead of an over-time mitigation item.
change should stop pubbies from jungling. Not much effect on higher-level play though it affects his lane aggressiveness, and means that he has to cast spells to jungle farm later on in the game instead of just passively autoattacking and having his passive burn down creeps while he regenerates. It'll hit his sustainability pretty hard. Subtly done, I like it.
change is fantastic. I always thought the last round of nerfs was overboard. This is a step towards her old status. Don't think we'll see her in competitive play based on this though.
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: Meh.
: Whoa son. This has a MAJOR ****ing effect on his gameplay. He's now forced to True Strike to actually apply damage. He can't safely nuke people down in lane anymore with Mirage Strike application, and the change to Sandstorm reflects this - he's now actually a chaser. A chaser that hits very, very hard. This also makes playing him MUCH riskier in mid lane. Not sure the buffs to True/Sandstorm will be enough to counteract that change for any effect on his pick frequency at high level, since he isn't especially amazing at sidelane.
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: Meh.
: Nice buffs, but not what I wanted to see. I wanted to see a revert of the aura range nerf and a rebalance of Chain Lightning's damage and mana cost (ideally towards Dota2's numbers). I'll take this though.
: Lots and lots of people are really pissed about this, but I think it's a net gain. He was never picked up in February at high level play (except once). It means he's actually balancable now without suddenly shooting to autoban status. I don't think he's very good right now, but there's actually room to buff him without breaking the game.
It also opens up combo heroes to be picked in higher level play. Previously, safe lineups didn't care at all about Vindicator, and that's a huge reason why he was never picked up. It was also (one) reason why heroes like Panda was rarely picked up.
I mean, it sucks that his influence on drafting is gone, but oh well. I never thought the old passive was actually a good idea on a hero, as an aura. I like the idea of the ability and the effect it has, but put it on another hero as an actual castable ability, like Pugna's ward. Only it silences.
Not like my opinion matters much though.
S2 Games: Dedicated employees serving dedicated gamers. Continuous development. Never-ending improvement.
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Tech Support and Customer Support: https://www.heroesofnewerth.com/support/
Look for my highlighted text (important information) and grey text (interesting but not required information).
I'll return with an answer to S2's change of heart, when I have an answer.
Your opinion is very much appreciated
"What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.”Forum Moderators are not S2 Games employees. My posts in no way represent the view of S2 Games or any of its staff.
Please use the report post function
Check the Sticky Threads for additional information on this sub-forum and the Announcement Threads for more information about Heroes of Newerth as a whole!
-----------------------------
Meh I’m not totally sure on this one, his silence activates from being attacked now, so wouldn’t it be ideal to build him as a tank now and use him for pure counter initiation?
He fits in more, but still a boring hero to play.. Which is why is believe he is so under picked.
Also does he steal/gain intel per kill in the area?
Nuke him down, dead.
Ignore him, he won't deal much damage until later on (and even then you can keep him down if you throw a few disables at him).
Or: use spells, then autoattack him while your spells are on cooldown. Silence won't have much effect on you then.
S2 Games: Dedicated employees serving dedicated gamers. Continuous development. Never-ending improvement.
-----------------------------
Tech Support and Customer Support: https://www.heroesofnewerth.com/support/
Look for my highlighted text (important information) and grey text (interesting but not required information).
I just find it strange that the silence on E only activates on an auto-attack. General rule of thumb is auto-attack between spells or when your out of mana, or if you're a carry.
What will happen now is in a teamfight, people can ignore Vindi and pick him off at the end, untroubled by his silence unless he uses an ulti, but heroes like Pebbles for instance, are now longer countered.
Hey, I'm here "balance" changes. Ra and Nomad destupified to an extent. Vindicator rework is really meh not that I liked the original in the first place.
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