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I think a single 2.0x crit every 5 attacks is less than 1.2x overall damage output wise. I make that 0.24 not inclusive of splash.Originally Posted by Dominare
Wrong. You can compare everything with everything. That doesn't mean it is the same. You just have to come to the differences in the conclusion.
Also it is very important to compare INT carries with AGI carries, because in the end you compare the role and its effectiveness in the team.
If you stand there and attack stuff repeatedly it does actually amount to a +20% (1.2x factor) on overall damage, ignoring splash. Then there are items like shroud to consider, and the fact the counter should be at 1 when you enter the teamfight. If you attacked lets say 7 times in a fight, and 2 of these were crit and the first one with +125 from shroud, it did much more than 1.2x on your dps.I think a single 2.0x crit every 5 attacks is less than 1.2x overall damage output wise. I make that 0.24 not inclusive of splash.
"Proclamation was made, in the King's Name, for all Persons to keep Silence" - House of Lords Journal, Volume 20, 24 June 1717
200 damage and -3 int in an aoe nuke is ridiculously under-powered, compare it to Hammer's Q which is 325 damage and 2 second stun. I think I prefer an aoe 2 second stun than -3 int, and 325 damage rather than 200 damage!
New vindi is super mega carry.. in mid wars!
Hammer IS his stun (at least until it gets late and he has some big farm), so it's not a fair comparison.
It would make more sense to compare to something like FA root, or Draconis pushback, or MoA slow/dot, generally what you see for AoE's on ranged carries. but yea Vindi's one is definitely one of the worst.
If you played Old Vindi as pure support, you played him wrong. Vindi's has always been a carry, a semi-carry at least. What was supportive on him besides his ulti used to save teammates? And even that you could use to help initiate a teamfight along with your true initiators.
he could sorta support and get some cheap survival items (steam vest psupply tablet) and use ult and aura from fog and really fk up the other team's spell combos. After the game has gone on long enough, if he could farm a sheep, he'd turn into uber dps machine. With DBP or frostfield on top of all that he could turn himself into a full-fledged carry. It wasn't easy though. but the playstyle was really unique. It's a shame they ruined it like this.
Any heroes can support if you take it this way. Why pick vindicator for one? Makes no sense. He was a situational pick back then and I still believe so now.
they tried to make him into a harder carry, but now he can't carry nor support
He has 600 attack range. He has an orb attack that lets him harass without drawing creep aggro. He used to have a very annoying early game mana drain skill. With all those tools he was a fantastic harassing support hero during the laning phase (kind of how Martyr is now).
In the mid and late game he had his ult and his silencing aura to assist in team fights by restricting how quickly and when opponents can use their spells. He was a very good support hero.
time to let this thread die i think... just like vindicator died.
*wiggles wand* This thread has now been swept under the rug by the dontcare fairy
This is one of the longest running threads in GD's history because people do care about the vindi change. Whether positive or negative. Until Vindi either starts getting some minor buffs or a new rework, people will keep coming back to this thread to express their views.
I actually like vindicator change...vindicator alway been a carry anyway, it is jsut than before eh had more suportive use. they just removed the suport aspect and boosted the carry aspect.
yea, his new Q is MUCH less agressive/anoying in the laning phase, but is still a prety decent nuke for the mana cost and cooldown. but unlike the old Q, it does not get totally useless past midgame there poeple will jsut alway spam spell anyway. It remain a solid nuke than used in a 5 vs 5 teamfight can give you some nice damage boost. Also make it more easy to vindicator to score kill.
and yes his new aura is not a coutner to chain nuker anymore...but in a carry idear the new aura work wonder. it does not stop chain nuker, but it stop other carry to focus you as easily. as any hero wanting to auto attack you to death will suffer painfull silence what can be a deaths sentence for a hero like madman who cannot invs out of anythings if he really want to take you down. it make you a suicide target to attack in a teamfight, and pretty much force any hero to either totaly spellburst you, or to have a no spell auto attack fight with you.
considering you might have a hellflower and a sheepstick, giving you around 200+ damage and a good 50-60 pure damage bonus....+20% damage hellflower + some sheelstick disable....that really get hell of a problem for any hero to go 1 vs 1 vs vindicator once he get item, he can easily outkill much AGI carry with similar farm/level at a certain point
And he had a Passive Steroid in his E that would make him hit like a truck the longer the game took.
BTW, Arachna also has 600 range, an orb attack that lets her harass without drawing creep aggro and a very annoying early game slow.
I know the comparison isn't that valid, indeed Vindi could go semi-support but that is a waste on my POV, he has no STUN/Slow, just a Silence in a long cooldown ulti, he could only support in teamfights but so can any Aura carriers nowadays.
Hey guys. I recently made a suggestion on his Q HERE. Come stop by if you have the time.
OT: I generally don't lvl-up his Q depending on the situation. With this build I don't have to worried about his mana management because only ring of teacher is sufficient for him trough out the whole game. RoT then can be upgraded into Nome's later. But if you go for the Q build you will have to build some mana item first and it could delay you from getting your carry/damage item.
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