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Although you pointed out strong points for every of your argument i belive you kinda overrate them.
1. E in early game is almost useless since because of low attack speed you cant keep it spaming while enemy can move away from it and get a lot of time before next blast. At the same time you wont max it early game so the dmg form it is to low to consider existing :< at the same time in mid to late game when you max that ability the dmg is already reasonably low because of how big hp pools are and how much dmg autoattacks do
2. I dont see any way for draconis to do decent dmg in advanced mid game with FWS + Geo combo. Beside the autoattack speed from ultimate (which doesnt synergise with those items almost at all since they give minimum dmg and a lot of attack speed) this hero will have a 1 nuke and 140-150 autoattack dmg after investing 13k gold into items :f Equally farmed fa/sil/valk/ew with geo bane + shieldbreaker would be multiply times more devastating to enemyt eam.
3. Although the pushback on Q can be a good defensive tool its very bad in offensive scenarios since pushback can help enemy in his escape.
4. Anyway biggest draconis problem is still the fact hes a dot type of hero - teamfight need to last long so that hes fire abilities do reasonable ammounts of dmg which makes him very very bad compared to other burst type range carrys with same or higher dps potential - sil/fa.
Im not saying your completly wrong with your statements alten but you arent rly comparing Draconis to other range carrys but just looking at paper and deciding that it looks nice. The prob with draconis is that there are better range carrys who perform exceptionally better than him especially in early-mid game and are at least on par with him in late game.
I suppose, then, that we won't be able to come to a conclusion as concerning his power until we actually see his organised usage in high-level play. He has a definite niche in a team that focuses on outlasting the enemy in drawn-out battles, and he farms fast enough that he can gain a level advantage and utilise his e to at least reasonable effect as he levels it later on.
And, again; the build I was stating was simply the one I was using to stomp and frustrate the other team thanks to the high amount of survivability it gives (and tankiness on him IS very useful, with a level advantage easily attained). Please don't give it any real credence, however; again, it is a stomp build.
I'd say that in a nutshell, he is FA with weaker early game but better lategame.
My speculation is that he will soon be picked in a tourney match if FA is either banned or already picked by the enemy team.
Ok now I actually played him.
The attack animation is out of this world. His farming speed is incredible and if he can get the enemy to stand in fire (Mummy wall trap etc.) he can easily get early kills.
Last edited by Bohrain; 03-16-2012 at 06:09 PM.
Definitely weak.
He's definitely one of the more 'proper team' reliant heroes in the game. If your team doesn't have heroes like KotF, Kraken, Tempest, or Cronos his usefulness is severely diminished.
There's something weird about his flame path, it seems to stop hitting even when the creeps/heroes are running right along it.
His ult isn't too great until level 3.
His flame breath is extremely meh. Pushback that you can't toggle off is not a cool thing to have.
A 10% slow that you can just walk out of might as well not even exist.
I think I'd like him better as a strength hero, so that when you pick him people won't complain about what a horribly mediocre carry he is.
Last edited by Donald`Duck; 03-17-2012 at 02:57 PM.
The hero look and voice is totally cool, i really like the Fire Dragon concept S2 created here. Bravo!
Q: Its good for some arrash, can save allies being chased but also helps enemys when ur the one being offensive (wich is the thing ur supposed to be doing anyways :/) Still im ok with this skill. (btw I dont really like the random armor parts he throw... make it looks kinda dummy, but thats just me). Maybe give the option of Pushback or not by using the pasive skill slot as another activated key?
W: First than anything, when u activate this skill:
THATS THE WAY DRACONIS DEFAULT WALKING ANIMATION SHOULD BE, NOT RANDOMLY WALKING LIKE A INJURIED CAT :S
Hes a magnificent (yes, he says that) dragon with big wings and I dont get why all the heroes with wings like Zephir, Dampeer, PlagueRider, etc goes flying but Draconis goes sadly walking =/ PLZ FIX IT >.< my friends laught at him cuz that </3
Skillwise, I find the damage pretty contradictory to the hero role... im a 600 range hero whos wishing to do as much auttoatack as i can at max range, why would I want to go to melee range just to deal some lil dot damage? the only reason to use this should be to chase/flee but just last 3 seconds =/ I find no sinergy on the damage part of this skill.
E: This skill in my opinion is also a little bit contradictory... if u max it asap u cant attack fast enough to make it worth, if u max it later then that lil spell damage is irrelevant vs heros mid/late game anyways and they also can move out of it. It could kill some creeps but i want to do my job at team clashes not just farm...
However Draconis MUST have a firebreathing pasive skill, thats pretty mandatory for a Fire Dragon like him I think, so the skill idea is cool, just need some rework maybe.
R: FA Split Fire but as ulti and with AS bonus but last 5/6/7 instead of permanent like FA have, also in many situations ull use it vs just one single hero making it a "some lil secs AS ulti", this makes it a situational skill.
Overall, i feel hes kinda below average, but still good. The concept its great maybe just need some tweaks on how his works.
Plz S2, rework him a little bit so he dont become another forgot pick on the hero pool. Thanks a lot!
Last edited by BlazeHN; 03-20-2012 at 01:29 AM.
Dude I agree, anyone saying he sucks is plain bad with him. The FA comparison is pretty fair, weaker early game but stronger late. FA's ulti is magic damage, so unfarmed it will outdamage Drac's autoattack based ulti. He's an absolute monster late game, easily one of the biggest if not the biggest ranged carry in that he carries through scaling magic damage granted IF you know what you're doing with him. I'll give it away just because people are being plain retarded with this hero and it's sad to see as a member of the human race, I mean can these people really be the product of billions of years of evolultion? But I digress. I build Steam Nullstone/Shrunken (Null highly preferable for the mana) HARKON'S Charged Hammer.Originally Posted by Bohrain
I'll even give you a strat/ideal scenario I've pulled off: the enemy team as 5 pushes at your base tower, you come in from behind, Q push them into your SOMEWHAT COMPETENT TEAM (this is important as he has no hard CC, sorry, I know how rare this is) who will start to jump on them. In the distraction you Flight through the middle of the fight (activating Shrunken if they are CC heavy) and get to the other side while also applying the powerful DoT, on the other side once in GOOD POSITIONING (so you can get the most out of your short ultimate by not having to move once it starts) you activate ulti and Harkon's and proceed to hat-trick. Make it a genocide if you have a Charged Hammer and get lucky procs, which I never do (I'm a fan of watching my replays to improve, I often count 10-15 attacks in a row with not one lightning. I seriously think it might be bugged as I see Riftshards 4 doing consistent procs at the same 20% chance). Huge team wide damage with 3 guys being stripped of magic armor and your attacks likely being true damage-y.
I've only played 2 games as Drac and dominated both with this build, dealing huge damage every team fight, as a brand new Drac player. Sure they were trash games, but it shows his damage POTENTIAL is undeniable and he easily has the means to get there with quite possibly being the best ranged farmer (best farmers I'd say are probably Zephyr and Ra). It's just like Bohrain said, his attack animation is bonkers. It got me a bloodlust first game as Drac against a Gunblade, you can watch the replay, it wasn't luck either.
Last edited by TheMostHigh; 03-19-2012 at 01:44 PM.
Draconis has the farming potential of Soulstealer and Forsaken Archer without the early game damage but instead he gains a good escape with a low cooldown/mana cost. Draconis has to go a damage item early or he won't be very useful mid game.
His ultimate is a steroid skill but could be stronger. It does have a short cooldown but it would be better to give it more power at the cost of a longer cooldown.
It's dangerous to make him stronger early game because of how easily he can farm from his perfect attack animation and passive.
What he has going for him:
1) Great attack animation
2) Decent magic damage for the early game
3) Decent escape/chase spell
What he has going against him:
1) Nigh useless passive except for farming
2) Pushback usually does more harm than good
3) Squishy with no cc
He honestly feels like a mish-mash of a ton of heroes present in the game and nearly delivers absolutely nothing new. I think there needs to be more time to completely assess his viability but as of now I'd call him weakly on the balanced side.
Last edited by Good_Apollo; 03-19-2012 at 03:53 PM.
I'm glad that some people are at least acknowledging his potential.
Draconis has a better harass game, farming capabilities, and late game damage scaling compared to FA. It's far too easy to hit 400-500 gpm with him and crush the opponents with sheer items.
I think his passive should change so that it sets the target on fire and then everything around the target burns (fire moves with the target).
I'm pretty sure such a simple change would make this hero much more viable.
This is not a personal hate attack against you, but this seems to be the way many are thinking. Making a hero viable instead of making a hero useful in a unique way.
Not saying you're wrong in that he would be more viable with that change, but it feels rather bland to just add some more damage to him to make him better instead of changing some of the mechanics around to make him more unique and refreshing.
Stats are like women in bikinis, they are interesting to look at however they don't show you everything.
He's pigeonholed into his role, though, and no reasonable change to his passive will give him a unique role. He combines several subroles effectively, however, which is easily realised with comparisons to other heroes like valk or CD.
He would be more appreciated if the damage from his passive did not require a very specific composition to be met.
I've played 5 games on him now, in the 1500 bracket, and honestly, against players who lack experience he's simply devastating, 35/7/38 in 5 games, but I've also played against him a couple of times, and right out trashed him every time..
His farming skills are simply insane, his harass abilities are great, attack animations are great, there's actually not a single hero I've struggled against, I've met smurf Fayde's, Pebbles and Nomads, and they can't do squat against him mid, Nomad charges you? Pushback and autoattack him and he'll run away, Pebbles can't stand his harass, Fayde is simply **** against him, Hag is pretty much useless.
Unless your enemy teams up against you and chain stun you, you won't lose mid at all.
Play him on a sidelane with pretty much any support hero, and you'll win the lane.
But as I said, this was in the 1500's (though the 1500's pretty much consist of smurfs these days).
- Certified Peggle GrandMaster -
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One of the few s2 heroes I like. A carry with great farming abilities and strong late, but lack of cc and squishy. Perfect imo.
Normal S2 heroes have stun, blink, slow, heal, epic attack animation, high armour, great in all stages of the game and unmissable spells.
My suggestions:
Key Binding - http://tinyurl.com/BindDemItems2
Remake votekicking - http://tinyurl.com/RmkVotekickingNao2
Ability to use item hotkeys while shopping - http://tinyurl.com/DemHotkeys2
He excels at one thing: harassing. Unfortunately, since he's an agi carry, spending too much time harassing = little farm. His firebreath and third ability let him deal a lot of ranged damage while staying at a safe distance. A hero like pebbles will have a hard time closing the gap without a portal key.
Unfortunately, the same thing that makes breath a good defensive skill makes it a horrible offensive ability. If you're chasing someone, using breath as anything but a finisher is often counterproductive. The 20% slow is very mediocre, and the distance it pushes them AWAY from you negates the slow . There is nothing more frustrating than pushing an enemy into the trees when you are about to finish them off.
Flight suffers from the same mindset that breath does; it's great if they're chasing you, but it is utterly worthless when you're trying to kill somone. Getting into melee range without serious hp items is suicide for most ranged agility carries, and draconis is no exception.
The fire spit is great for harassing (well, it's mediocre), but once again, when you're trying to kill somone, the damage and slow is almost unnoticed. It also pushes the lanes, which can put you in a bad spot. The spell is basically a very inferior version of slither's dot (honestly the whole hero reminds me of slither). It deals less damage, doesn't stop regen, and it pushes the lane. Pushing the lane is useful, sometimes, but early game it is very inconvenient. However, it is OK for it to be inferior to slither's dot. Why? Draconis has 600 range, slither does not. Slither has to put himself into a more dangerous situation to get his auto attack off.
Draconis's ult is strong, probably the last thing that needs to be changed about the hero.
So basically you're left with a hero that 's terrible at ganking, good at farming, and good at harassing. However, he doesn't scale that well into late game. His skills promote turtling, since you can't really use them offensively (unless you want to get in melee range). The problem is that he doesn't have the late game potential to justify his poor ganking abilities. Forsaken Archer, silhouette, valkyrie, and soulstealer all have much better hero killing power, and equal, if not better late game potential. I simply see no reason to pick draconis over a forsaken or silhouette. His entire skillset is based around the idea of "they're going to get me, i will use these abilities and make them suffer for it". So what if they DON'T try to get you?
Last edited by Isis; 04-22-2012 at 10:31 PM.
People like to complain about the pushback on his nuke but the idea behind the hero is to control a area and keep pumping out damage while keeping enemies away with his push/slow and flight. I was ownIng with this hero before the ult buff and the only game after I stomped. Currently 20/7 75% wins in the 1700 area.
How the **** does a hero with an ult that massively increases attack speed as well as splits it to other targets NOT scale into late game? Draconis is by far one of the strongest late game heroes
I like to troll.
And make uh duh funny on mic
Speculation time over people. Feel free to start a new thread if you feel it is necessary.
Thread closed.
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