Tbh, i don't understand why it doesn't work on Harkon's and why it does work on Savage and Brutalizer... Harkon's damage is magical, which should trigger the shield, and Savage's bonus dmg is physical. Brutalizer has no bonus dmg whatsoever, it shouldn't trigger anything at all. Appearently the stuns coming from Savage and Brutalizer have something to do with it, but I'm not sure about that...
No matter how it works, the tooltip should be more specific.
I have one concern with Kinesis:
He does basically nothing if you don't have trees or creeps near by, which makes him very ineffective while defending or pushing mid. Of course you could lift up creeps but thats only every 30 seconds and heroes such as bursting creep waves in 1 second doesn't help.
I just wanna ask (again) whether his second skill not triggering moraxus arcane shield is intended.
Only one thing needs to change: Remove Kong as a viable target. It's pretty sick that you can throw and deny creeps on Kong, and especially that it ONLY WORKS FOR HELLBOURNE is what makes it unfair.
Other than that I think he is ok. If you want to nerf him the only thing I can think of is:
- Throws are slower, which means that you can dodge his ult
Other than that, it's just people don't know how to play against him. He is extremely vulnerable in the beginning, and if this guy is off to a rough start, he doesn't really have any great farming tool to get back quickly.
Personally, I think he is balanced.
I also wonder if it should work with barbed. What kind of damage it does? Unless it does magic or the same type it recieved it shouldn't work with the shield either.
So except those few mistakes so far the hero seems fine.
About the abuse with Kong and neutrals maybe make it impossible to throw at creeps and it's fine? It kinda nerf at lot fighting camps but the hero is not meant for that anyway.
The only problem I currently have with Kinesis is his ability to stall/disallow allied creeps from entering the lane. Although this is a little different than Behemoth, but it is still an issue.
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Just from my experience I agree that he is strong in certain line ups and week in others (honestly a good thing). However, he seems to have much more strong line ups than week ones.
My biggest issue with him is his first ability. You can't deny that it's supposed to be a variation of SS. Not the same, but along the same lines. It's designed to be a disable. My beef is that favor is to Devourer. Deverour can hook enemies or allies straight out of it. That makes this ability EXTREMELY broken. The odd thing is, Flux can't. Why is it Devourer is shown favor over Flux, one of the most Balanced heroes in the game?
Not sure if the hero has enough to distinguish him from other gankers, with his ability to stall it might work out.
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As a predominately middle lane player, I find Kinesis to be a very powerful middle lane. Although I've beaten Kinesi (plural form?) middle with other powerful laners (like Nomad and Monkey King), he still SHITS on squishy middle heros and place tanker midders like Devo,Flux, and Rampage in check. His ganking ability isn't anything to laugh at either. He stuns you, lifts from trees, and pretty much solo kills at least one hero. With this ultimate, it's even possible to get an easy double kill with good timing and precision.
Personally I believe he's just a powerful Mid ganker like Deadwood.
Looks generally balanced to me. His targeted stun cuts damage in half for its duration, the AoE is easily avoided if teammates are looking for it. Damage is in-line with other int heroes.
The only problem I have is that the hero can easily drop allied creeps into neutrals/kongor. It's effectively a full deny on a really short cooldown. For hellbourne, all that's needed is a ward revealing kongor, then pick up 1-2 creeps every wave and drop them in. The lane pushes up to your tower, you kill them, repeat until you have a massive experience advantage over your opponent. Against a melee, two 100% denies is equivalent to denying the entire creepwave plus two in their range early game. Except you can still deny the other two to make them gain even less experience.
That, and it's a real good harassment skill against melee opponents when combined with his 600 range and decent starting damage.
When a hero is as item dependent as Kinesis, I find it extremely annoying to not have any way of farming effectively at all.
I 'been able to or seen him do well without decent items. This just doesn't happen without your team winning hard when it comes to kills.
So taking Kinesis' role in consideration, it really doesn't fit him to be incapable of farming well. I do know that he can be played in many different ways, but for instance as a support there are just so many stronger heroes.. (Monarch, Glacius) etc. The fact that you can't really nuke your target when he is stunned makes it hard to support and set up kills like your good old Glacius.
To everything in the posts above me I only have one thing to add, and that is the nasty part of actually getting down the damage.
Since the lifting of trees/creeps and the ulti is in 2 steps, it actually takes quite a while for you to get the damage down. First the lift, then the throw and then the travel time of those throws.
Yes to counter this you can constalty lift, but that wouldn't be mana efficient.
He is no way OP, I've actually seen his weak side a lot, like whenever having teamfights in the river you have to run around crazy to find trees and come back just to do something, even though his tornado is good, all his other skill counts. Plus lategame if he focused down, he can be fragile.
Jungling and Support = Best Roles Ever!
That shield in early game is to ****ing strong, not only that he got insane burst but at the same time hes a bit unkillable. If he starts the fight by nuking you with trees the mana shield will constantly regen since his toss got low cd making him almost unkillable.
Shield needs some changes, my idea would it to make a charge based:
When your doing spelldmg to your opponent charges are increasing and on use of the 3rd skill you get shield absorbing dmg based on how many charges you gained but having a 15-20 second cooldown to stop that hero from absorbing 289164891264 dmg in early game. Charges would of course dissapear when not dealing any spelldmg to opponents for some fixed duration.
I can live with his great burst and a reasonably good disable/survivial Q skill but the dmg shield is just too strong making him OP burst hero almost unkillable in early game when hes solo
I just think the whole "pick up creeps and objects" to throw them is gimmicky. If anything, he should just "create" the objects and have them move with him, as this address multiple problems with the concept. I would be okay with the ultimate picking up those things, simply because it has a cooldown that doesn't allow spammability.
Throwing creeps into Kong/Neuts and lane manipulation on a large scale are all pretty bogus with Kinesis. He also suffers when there aren't objects around him to grab, or if the only objects are in an unsatisfactory location themselves. Having the objects originate at his position and be "created" by him would eliminate those issues. It may require tweaks to damage/cooldown/cost, as having them with you would pretty much guarantee their success in hitting a desired target, but as it is, it's a pretty exploitable mechanic.
HONOR- If you need it defined, you don't have it.
I always kinda envisioned the lift mechanics as like blades or orbs of force he generated around himself, kinda like the mage spell in Kingdoms of Amalur.
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
Vindicator is a pain to play against, that aura is pure pain. Since everytime kinesis lifts a tree or creep he gets silenced by the aura :S
As for the fact he's object dependant I think it is what make his charm. Having him create the objects would make him pretty boring. Yes he's weaker when in river, so is KotF (to some extent). If you really happen to fight often in the river why not try puzzlebox? It give you bullets and once thrown it can attack your slowed target. Need more bullets? throw them again.