Thread: Dear Moderators...

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  1. #1
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    Dear Moderators...

    First of all:
    Please do not slap me with another infraction for this thread as it is no threat or issue with one moderator.

    This thread is meant as constructive criticism to all current active moderators and a way for the serious forum users to ventilate their point of view regarding the subject I am going to write about.

    Lately I get the feeling that the moderation is getting quite heavy, almost extreme on some moments even.
    One might say that there is an actual censorship towards some posts.



    More then once now I've seen posts getting deleted without further notice that where actually on-topic.
    I do get that, even if on-topic, a post might need moderation because of the used language or the harsh way of saying it.
    So regarding this, here is my first piece of advice:
    Moderate instead of delete the post.

    I myself am an active moderator on a forum for a big LAN-organisation in my province. We handle, just like a lot moderators on forums that interact closely with their community, the policy of applying a mod-edit to posts that are on-topic but just not the way they should be.
    Imagine a Person A starting a discussion thread about a certain hero or item and Person B reply's in a harsh anti-social way but still informative and on-topic.
    The current way of handling a situation like that is just deleting that post. Even when people already replied and/or elaborated on Person B's post.
    This just looks weird and might even cause confusion.



    Next thing I notice is that if people start a topic with a certain question to the forum, and someone replies to it (detailed or just plain and simple) moderators tend to say "Answered and Closed".
    In this case I would at least wait till the OP replied if his answer is successfully answered as it might be possible that the given answer raised even more questions.
    At least let the topic stay open and don't insta-close it after an answer was given.



    I do get that you guys are just doing your job the way you think is the best and that you all want to keep the forum (esp. GD) as clean as possible.
    As far as I'm concerned these two things are the only thing I noticed that could be handled better.



    I hope this thread will get some serious attention from both community and moderators as I am almost sure that I am not the only one on this matter.



    TL;DR
    Moderators are doing a great job. Just certain things could be done a bit different and still cause a big difference to the forum user.
    http://www.twitch.tv/huntyyy

  2. #2
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    And the topic got moved to website feedback where only 1% of the forum users looks.
    What is the point of "General Discussion" if you can't "discuss general" stuff.

    The whole reason why I posted this in GD was because 90% of the active forum users who will or already have experienced these things are active on GD and mostly GD only.

    A thread about Salforis in GD hits 5 pages.
    A thread about Aluna's alt hits 3 pages in GD.
    A thread about Draconis hits 3 pages in GD.
    And this gets moved before the first reply.

    Sad
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  3. #3
    I agree completely, they're locking, moving and delete/hiding more than ever.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucian01 View Post
    I agree completely, they're locking, moving and delete/hiding more than ever.
    Thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

    I do get that the amount of spamming and trolling (esp. in GD) is an issue that has to be dealt with, yet I think that lately things are getting almost slightly out of hand with the over-eagerness of moderation.
    Maybe it's just the new moderators, or a request from the higher ups to react and censor faster then usual.

    In my opinion it's OK to moderate more. But the way it's being done right now might need some adjustment I think.

    I wrote one a PM to a Global Moderator regarding this thread being moved to "Website Feedback" as this thread is more then just feedback.
    It's supposed to be a discussion thread between the community and if possible the moderators.
    Last edited by Hunty; 02-28-2012 at 10:09 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Nice thread, but now where it got moved S2 will never look at it... Just like every other single thread in Website Feedback.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elune_ View Post
    Nice thread, but now where it got moved S2 will never look at it... Just like every other single thread in Website Feedback.
    This is exactly what I am talking about right now with the Global Moderator.

    I get that moderation and moving of threads to the corresponding sub-forum is used to keep it clean.
    But the sad thing is:
    Not only do users barely visit these sections.
    Moderators reply slowly to almost not at all here either, while they do reply in GD.

    Why should you post your feedback or discussion regarding the moderators in "Website Feedback" if the moderators themselves almost only read and reply in GD?
    http://www.twitch.tv/huntyyy

  7. #7
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    Actually I read every thread in this section but less than 5% of the threads in GD.

    I don't agree with your point on "Moderate instead of delete the post."

    Editing users posts reflects badly as normal users can't see what was edited, for all they know the moderator in question completely changed the post. Users shouldn't be making posts which require being changed in the first place anyway.

    The section point on answered threads, I can see you point. However users can also PM the moderator asking them to reopen it if they really want to, they can also PM their follow up questions to the user who answered it as well.

    Forum Moderators are not S2 Games employees. My posts in no way represent the view of S2 Games or any of its staff.

    Please use the report post function to have me review a post that you believe is breaking the Forum Rules.
    Check the Sticky Threads for additional information on this sub-forum and the Announcement Threads for more information about Heroes of Newerth as a whole!

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  8. #8
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    Oh and vahn (from what i've seen) Just locks the post, Being quite a nice guy.

  9. #9
    I find it's just that GD that is being excessively policed lately. Wether it's an order by S2 like after the jhonnyutah/dotallyrad thing or if it's just because the new batch of mods are overenthusiastic about using their new powers, I'm not sure.

    Editing posts works when the mod clearly writes what was removed and/or what rule was broken, but yes if they just edit it out with no explanation then they tend to look more like vandals.

  10. #10
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    New batch of mods = more man power cleaning GD, which is what we've been trying to do for ages, just haven't had the numbers to do it.

    Forum Moderators are not S2 Games employees. My posts in no way represent the view of S2 Games or any of its staff.

    Please use the report post function to have me review a post that you believe is breaking the Forum Rules.
    Check the Sticky Threads for additional information on this sub-forum and the Announcement Threads for more information about Heroes of Newerth as a whole!

    -----------------------------


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vahn View Post
    Actually I read every thread in this section but less than 5% of the threads in GD.

    I don't agree with your point on "Moderate instead of delete the post."

    Editing users posts reflects badly as normal users can't see what was edited, for all they know the moderator in question completely changed the post. Users shouldn't be making posts which require being changed in the first place anyway.
    First of all thanks for replying here.
    It's great to see a moderator showing interest in this subject and giving his PoV.

    To go on with what you're saying:
    I do get that you can't simply delete and rewrite an user's post.
    But that's not how it should be done anyways.
    If a mod-edit is to be placed on a user's post it's a post that is on-topic and contributing but just really badly put.

    What you do is edit the existing text by setting it in a smaller almost tiny font (sadly there is no strike setting in the message editor) and place the mod-edit (with an explanation ofc) beneath it.
    It's extra work, and it might even be considered a burden by some.
    But I think it adds in a better way to the forum then just removing a post that actually contributed to the discussion.

    Now posts get deleted and users don't even get an explanation for it.

    I had posts getting deleted that contributed to the discussion but apparently where badly put in words I guess.
    The posts just got removed (still visible in other user's quotes) but I did not get a warning, infraction or whatever to explain me why it got deleted.
    Also there was no way for me to see who deleted it.

    Maybe the mod-edit is not the best solution for this forum.
    But it's better then the current policy of just removing contributing posts without further notice.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lucian01 View Post
    I find it's just that GD that is being excessively policed lately. Wether it's an order by S2 like after the jhonnyutah/dotallyrad thing or if it's just because the new batch of mods are overenthusiastic about using their new powers, I'm not sure.
    This was my thought exactly.
    Lately there has been a lot more moderating around GD.
    I've seen new mods as well if I'm not mistaken so I, too, thought that it might be either orders from higher ups or over-eagerly new mods.
    http://www.twitch.tv/huntyyy

  12. #12
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    General Discussion might get 10 x the views of any other section, but it also has 10 x the amount of useless posts and people who's opinions don't matter at all (1300's posting in threads about balance etc)

    Maybe if every thread wasn't posted in GD and was posted in the right section, those sections would have more people viewing them. Though I just use the 'New Posts' button which shows every section anyway.

    Though I still find the forum is full of useless posts/trolls etc and would have no problem with a lot more moderation. Censorship is a completely different matter.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thysios View Post
    Though I still find the forum is full of useless posts/trolls etc and would have no problem with a lot more moderation. Censorship is a completely different matter.
    More moderation is not an issue, not at all.
    It's the way of moderation that could be improved/changed to a better way if you ask me.

    Censorship is a big issue and shouldn't be allowed unless it's to maintain the rules.
    Removing a contributing post without further notice or explanation is censorship if you ask me, and that's whats happening now.
    I do not know how often, it happened twice in the past month to my posts
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  14. #14
    Keep in mind GD is also for general discussion, meaning it doesn't have a single consistent topic to moderate it around like other sections.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunty View Post
    It's extra work, and it might even be considered a burden by some.
    This has always been a problem, the only mod I've seen to give warnings was Ninja_Style, the rest just delete/hide and forget so you don't even learn what you've done wrong.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucian01 View Post

    This has always been a problem, the only mod I've seen to give warnings was Ninja_Style, the rest just delete/hide and forget so you don't even learn what you've done wrong.
    Don't worry, I'm stepping up on sending in reports for warnings/infractions. If I make it through my trials and get those abilities, I'll be generous in giving them out when deserved.

    Hunty: I appreciate your thoughts and will think upon them as I go along. (^v^)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katieeee View Post
    Don't worry, I'm stepping up on sending in reports for warnings/infractions. If I make it through my trials and get those abilities, I'll be generous in giving them out when deserved.

    Hunty: I appreciate your thoughts and will think upon them as I go along. (^v^)
    Very much appreciated.
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  17. #17
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    If it makes you feel better Vahn gave me an infraction today about 5 minutes after the post was made hahaha

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thysios View Post
    If it makes you feel better Vahn gave me an infraction today about 5 minutes after the post was made hahaha
    Was it really an infraction, as in point awarded for it?
    Then you must've really misbehaved XD!

    Still, I rather get warnings and infraction points with a reason, then just get my posts deleted without telling me why.

    You can't expect the users to improve themselves if they don't know what they do wrong.
    You won't go smack someone in the head if he does something wrong without telling him what.

    As I said. I had contributing posts get removed without a warning or explanation. They just vanished. No idea what I did wrong.
    So now there is a big chance that I make the same mistake again, while by properly warning or notifying me I would know what not to do next time.


    Kudo's to katie btw. Seen her around quite a lot lately.
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  19. #19
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    To be honest I somewhat take the side of Vahn here. Why would people post bad mannered stuff in first place? It get's nopony anywhere, and just with high probability just takes the thread in a completely different direction than the OP desired.

    There are a set of guidelines you need to follow or else there are consequences. People cry about getting threads deleted, when they could easily have worded it in a different way and everypony would be happy.

    -Luna
    Dat sig you can't see

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincesLuna View Post
    To be honest I somewhat take the side of Vahn here. Why would people post bad mannered stuff in first place?
    True that.
    But I had on-topic and contributing posts that where not bad mannered getting removed/deleted without further notice or reason why .

    What's with that ?


    Quote Originally Posted by PrincesLuna View Post
    People cry about getting threads deleted, when they could easily have worded it in a different way and everypony would be happy.
    Again: The moderation itself is no problem when it's with a good reason.
    It is the current lack of feedback/explanation towards the users that should be improved.
    People might not know why their threads (and as I said earlier their posts) get deleted.
    Give the people feedback why you moderate them!

    Unless a thread gets deleted because it's an obvious rage and swear filled topic.
    In that case people should just get an infraction (in which they at the same time get a reason).

    It's 2 clicks and a short text.
    Nothing more.
    Last edited by Hunty; 03-02-2012 at 08:55 AM.
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