TheKarcher Rants on eSports and S2 Games

[The_Karcher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UWAg...ature=youtu.be

Hey guys my name is the_karcher, and I am a staff member at gamereplays.org. I have been shoutcasting and making hero guides since November, all that can be seen at my channel http://www.youtube.com/user/joeysmash0?feature=mhee

This is simply a one man podcast of my feelings toward eSports, S2 Games, HON, and the ARTS genre in general and a casual casters view of the scene. I admit I am not the most knowledgeable on the matter, but if you listen to the podcast, that's kinda the point I am making, as we need to appeal to people that have NO knowledge on the matter. Its an hour long, so If you don't have the time I do not blame you.

I admit right now this is very long and me ranting, perhaps in the future I will redo it and write a proper article, but right now I was just in the mood to rant what I was thinking at the moment. Although after re-listening there are definatly points I did not expand on as much as I would like, but I still think I did a decent job of saying mostly what I was trying to. So this is way longer than it should be and I apologize for that, but I still feel most of what I was trying to say got out. Now, I would like to say, this is mainly for ARTS games, and mostly HON, but there are points where I am definatly referring to eSports in general. Just keep this in mind for those that decide to listen to this.

JoinDOTA article: http://www.joindota.com/en/news/2608...all-from-grace

http://drayich.blogg.se/ Drayichs blog. If you scroll down a bit, the segment I am referring to is STEPPING UP TIME. His blog is not often updated, but man, this guy should be a father figure for eSports.

One Article about the whole JohnnyUtah thing. There are plenty more use google http://www.dotallyrad.com/2011/05/johnnyutah-big-badass-s2-senior-staff-showi...

Super Smash Bros Scandal: http://professionalgaminglife.com/1034/top-players-in-super-smash-bros-pro-ci...

NASL Stuff: http://www.dotallyrad.com/2011/11/paintitgolds-nerd-story-of-the-year-deleted...

Big Ben Scandal: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4970050

EDIT: Star Wars Episode I Review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI


http://www.youtube.com/user/HuskyStarcraft/featured
http://day9.tv/
http://www.youtube.com/user/HDstarcraft
http://www.joindota.com/en/start
http://honcast.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/joeysmash0?feature=mhee
http://www.twitch.tv/moonmeander
http://www.gosugamers.net/hon/images/HoN/Bestteam.jpg

If there is an article I said I would put, but forgot please tell me.

[[RCT]IsmaelVera]

I was more interested in the Super Smash bros scandal, but good work Karcher.

[The_Karcher]

I was more interested in the Super Smash bros scandal, but good work Karcher.

Glad you have found something of interest lol.

[[LSDP]natiko]

Is there a way I can find the whole thing written down? I'm really not into watching long videos but rather reading >: .

[DreadLocks]

Ever gonna make a video on what you think of LoL?

[The_Karcher]

Is there a way I can find the whole thing written down? I'm really not into watching long videos but rather reading >: .

At some point this week I will try to sit down and write down my points. At the time it was easier for me to rant exactly what I was thinking. IIts easier for me to rant then write sometimes :P but now that I have heard what I have said, itl be easier to write into words.

Ever gonna make a video on what you think of LoL?

Actually this was next up on what I wanted to do. Stay tuned.

[squarebob]

Ah yes the smash bros scandal. It's sad because the fighting game community is heavily split. Community members coming from games like sf, marvel and tekken view smash players as "casual" players with no real competitive scene. Just when the smash community was starting to make a name for itself they pull this **** and have to start over. Kind of sad for their community, the fighting game community overall and eSports as a whole.

[DreadLocks]

Looking forward to it. The thing that annoys me the most about League is just the amount of praise and attention it gets, and how people honestly believe that it is the best thing since sliced bread. League is a great game but it isn't perfect and it definitely isn't the end-all-be-all of ARTS games, which its whole community say all the damn time.

[The_Karcher]

Ah yes the smash bros scandal. It's sad because the fighting game community is heavily split. Community members coming from games like sf, marvel and tekken view smash players as "casual" players with no real competitive scene. Just when the smash community was starting to make a name for itself they pull this **** and have to start over. Kind of sad for their community, the fighting game community overall and eSports as a whole.

This 1000%. The Smash scene is still strong of course, but it could have been so much more...

[DreadLocks]

When can we expect this LoL video exactly? Tomorrow?

[The_Karcher]

When can we expect this LoL video exactly? Tomorrow?

Soon? Kinda busy now until the end of the week.

[Sinz3r]

I listened to this for some reason

So I thought I would at least comment:

Topics

Professionalism in HoN/Esports

This is fairly appropriate. It needs to be improved for mainstream acceptance. However, you have to consider that professionalism does not come from the players, it comes from the organisations. Teams and players in most mainstream sports HAVE to belong to an Association, whether Football, Boxing, Tennis, Basketball. Over the couple hundred years, these associations have developed. FIFA, WBO, NBA, NHL, they are all ruling bodies which govern on the rules of the game and the teams and players conduct. E-Sports has no overarching association and will only require one if it expands.

Professionalism does not mean a sport will advance, however, as it advances, then an association is required and then professionalism is enforced. If there were no regulating associations, then players conduct in Football would be just as bad as in HoN. It is human nature.


General Appeal

Talking about increasing accessibility, this does not come from professionalism or otherwise. This is about the game being easy to understand, this is not the case for most online games. Also popularity between Mentally challenging games and Physically challenging games are already in history shown. Chess has a highly competitive scene, is older than most physical sports, yet has very low spectator values. E-Sports is somewhere between a mental activity like Chess and a physical sport like Football.

It has higher barriers to entry, you require a computer, internet connection, the game compared to a game like Football where you need a ball. It requires more understanding of the game, like items, heroes, builds, strategies. My girlfriend will sit and watch an international soccer game, because it is easy to watch. Even Starcraft 2 which you used as an example, has a much higher spectator barrier, because you need to know what the icons and graphics are. Watching Ronaldo flick a ball over 2 defenders and then volley a goal, is easier to appreciate than a SC2 pro, wildly clicking a build order and micro managing his workers.


Tournament Attendance

This is absolutely correct, games should be played on time and unless there are actual technical reasons like servers being down. If a team cannot attend they should forfeit.


Tournament organisation

This is also correct and I have commented on other threads before, that the HoN scene is just horrible in regards to this outside of Tournaments like Dreamhack or DYA, who have good reliable companies behind them.


Making Prize Pool bigger

This is valid, but there is no reason for it in HoN. Where do the prize pools come from? S2 doesn't want to pay for them, it is not profitable for them. There is not enough players to generate advertisement, so private enterprises will not pay. It does not come from professionalism as you mentioned, professionalism is created when there is money on the line and you have an association governing that enforces the teams and players to abide strictly by rules and regulations.


Streamers

People watch the streams to be entertained. There is one reason why Moon gets the viewers he does, it is because he entertains. He is the only streamer that makes me chuckle regularly. I watch various streams and most players are very skilled, however, they are simply not as entertaining. He would have competition if there was someone who was as entertaining as him. It has nothing to do with viewer spread or number of viewers. When he is not on, then usually viewers are spread a fair amount across the others. He is simply fun to watch.



Community involvement from S2

I too can see this, I remember back in Beta when S2 seemed a lot more at ease with their indie position and dealing with the community. However, the growth and type of community it is, has seen them withdraw. I do not think it has a specific cause in the JohnnyUtah case, I think it simply has parallels with the companies goals and the fact that this community is fairly toxic. Why should they post, when the first page is just pages of badly written english complaining, half the time not even about the topic in hand. Easier to not say anything. It also can be compared to your point about Breaky and having to stream and organise a tournament at the same time, it is too much work. Just like for Idejer, it is too much work to have active involvement on the forums and do his work. It should not be the case that the current S2 employees should be more on the forums, S2 should employ more people to be active for them.


Entry Fees

The best solution would be S2 creating a tournament creator in the game (Gas Powered Games did this for SupCom). You can sign up for a tournament like in online poker, pay your entrance fee and then play for the next couple of hours and finish everything off. Even just having the ability to bet gold coins would be a step forward for the competitive scene.


Your rant was OK, it was just set on the theme that professional conduct leads to a bigger competitive scene. I do not see that so, a bigger competitive scene can only be driven by the actual game being good and people wanting to play it. Once the number of players and spectators reaches a critical mass, then associations develop and professionalism is enforced.

Whether HoN is mature enough to reach that or whether they get the mass of players/spectators, I really doubt it. It has a high barrier to entry as previously stated and also in the genre, it is my belief that it really is not a good a game as some others . Mistakes have been made by the creators, made by players and community members, that will likely lead this game to be overshadowed. It is not a dead game, it just will not reach the player mass of it's direct competitors.

[The_Karcher]

Thanks for the indepth reply, it was great to read the thoughts on someone else on the matter.

Why was this moved to the VOD section? The whole point of this was a general discussion on e-sports in general and the HON scene. I would wish if a mod reads this to move it back toward general discussion.