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Revert his nerf, and that's it.
You are all forgetting how OP this hero was considered during trilane eras.
I think you ment to say "When spellshards were implemented."Originally Posted by Benny0
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Hunted this down; reason whydoesn't need huge buffs: http://honcast.com/video/2010/04/16/...k-vs-eg-game-2
This is from April 2010.Hunted this down; reason why
Go play a couple of MM games with him and post the results.Lol.
How about "TB is fine!" and that the competitive scene blows at trying different lineups? (refer to my sig). Buffing his passive (and maybe the damage on his ultimate) is probably the maximum change the ape should get. He's very strong if given the support to snowball and his lack of mobility is the only balancing factor for the amount of damage he can put out.
Put him dual mid if solo isn't an option (against aor w/e), but he doesn't need mega buffs ... please. People need to learn to build him properly with :EnhancedMarchers:/:Steamboots::TabletOfCommand::StaffOfTheMaster: and only then Spellshards and :RestorationStone:.
Still doesn't take away from the fact that after the god awful start,
Saying that implies that he'll work against any opposing lineup, which isn't true. For the sake of the discussion, I'm going to repeat myself: the older untouched DotA heroes are where the balance of this game needs to be at; the swiss-knife heroes S2 pumps out are not. These single purpose heroes get left out because S2 heroes exist. Buffing them into monstrosities is not the solution, nerfing the others is.
Edit: But in any case, here you go: http://www.hondamage.com/painkiller%60/ranked/81158276 (highest hero damage on either team, watching the replay will show you why we lost. That's all I can do with the servers acting up right now.)
Last edited by painkiller`; 02-25-2012 at 04:50 PM.
Because in the MM queue you're with a team of five premades and you all go through strategic picking and banning. No, you don't. And if you force a hero into a lineup just to prove a point you are in fact proving nothing.
I can't remember who it was, but it was an underleveled TB played by some American competitive player(only name that pops up is Cardinal, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't him).
Basically got shat on in lane, had lowest hero damage in the team. Got Spellshards and boots, got into three team fights or so and suddenly he was highest hero damage done in the game. Just shows the potential of a Thunderbringer despite being underfarmed and underleveled.
Stats are like women in bikinis, they are interesting to look at however they don't show you everything.
Just for the heck of it, here's another one (right after the previous one): http://www.hondamage.com/painkiller%60/ranked/81162173 same result damage wise, and we won this time even thoughraged out half way through.
I think I've made my point, so that's going to be that.
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...6&postcount=24
one of the other problems is, that he should theoretically scale decently against tanks, but he absolutely doesnt. Hes actually horrible against tanks ur much better off picking cc heroes over tb vs tanks.
Edit: if i think about it almost all tanky heroes in comp play completely **** on tb. Armadon/ctuhlu/elec/kraken
Last edited by moshonkel; 02-25-2012 at 07:06 PM.
Oh, right. Sorry I missed that, thanks for the link.Just for the heck of it, here's another one (right after the previous one): http://www.hondamage.com/painkiller%60/ranked/81162173 same result damage wise, and we won this time even though
I think I've made my point, so that's going to be that.
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...6&postcount=24
And now I see that he had most hero damage on his team even before he got any major item. Yeah weak hero guys.
Last edited by GregerMoek; 02-25-2012 at 07:58 PM.
Stats are like women in bikinis, they are interesting to look at however they don't show you everything.
No offense man, but i dont see how this proves anything. You've shown me 2 games in which your pink/grey, one of which you lost. These games include 1400 bracket players...No one in these games even bothered to pick up a vestments in these games. Also in the game you won, their 0-1 devo left early and you guys had 5v4 for majority of game. Your 6-2 lego left right before game was about to end.Just for the heck of it, here's another one (right after the previous one): http://www.hondamage.com/painkiller%60/ranked/81162173 same result damage wise, and we won this time even though
I think I've made my point, so that's going to be that.
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...6&postcount=24
These damage charts dont mean anything b/c obviously they're gonna be skewed for a hero like tb. If you get your ult off then you've automatically done most of the damage in the teamfight since it hits every player. You can play tb in any game, ulti whenever its off cd, never kill anyone, or win a teamfight and you'll have had the highest damage according to these charts.
If your team loses a fight and you throw out a lvl 1 ulti, yet kill noone you'll have dealt over 1k damage.... This proves nothing...
Fact is, teamfights are about ccing as many heros as possible or isolating and killin a few heros to gain a number advantage. Doing insignificant dispersed damage to all heroes contributes very little.
Last edited by hmontana; 02-25-2012 at 08:36 PM.
Go in>r/q/w=33% of everyones health gone,continue spamming q/w
yeah thatll be balanced
In addition to this, he recently got a buff (Zeus) in DotA allowing Lightning Rod to work with creeps.
@Above: He has NOTHING to offer other than raw damage. With certain competitors in the pool who have much more and almost as much burst, why bother picking TB at all?
Giving him a scaling nuke with Lighting Rod may be the buff he needs (not the buff he deserves). By amping up his raw damage with enemy scaling, he can surpass those utility heroes and actually output significant amounts to justify his lack of utility.
The sign of lost Carcosa appeared in the air, paralyzing us with dread older than the very idea of time.
As we looked on in horror, the unholy sign dissolved into a lone figure, shrouded in yellow.
Yeah it is actually. Considering you can just PK onto him and he'll generally die instantly. Plus it takes from your current hp, so it would be much less than 33% of their max hp.
Go in>r/q/w=33% of everyones health gone,continue spamming q/w
yeah thatll be balanced
Revert aura nerf.
The matches were purely to indulge you. GregerMoek already said that posting matches will not prove anything because that's not how arguments work. Too many factors contributing/taking away from the subject.
What I did want to point out though was
But yes, these matches don't prove anything, because
Fact is, teamfights are about ccing as many heros as possible or isolating and killin a few heros to gain a number advantage. Doing insignificant dispersed damage to all heroes contributes very little.:jera:
are pretty underpowered, aren't they?
Anyway, this is a pretty pointless thread, so that's all I am going to say about that.
TB's playstyle is for me a bit like Artesia...i still don't know, why most Poeple compared Artesia with Torturer(except in output dmg)
He has damage, magic damage, thats all. Not even a little slow like Artesia. Actually i think that Artesias passive would fit so much to Thunderbringer. But still, he just gets more Damage.
What does he need to be effective and competitive again? Slow? Stun? Immobilze? Escape?
What i thought of was a little buff like: For every spell he casts, he gets a charge on his passive ability. Every point gives him a Movespeed Buff on activation for 7 seconds(you can compare it to Rampage's second ability, where he gets the aoe slow). Something like 0.5/1/1.5/2% for every charge, up to 5 charges.
OR
Same thing with charges, but other effect: On activation he pushes himself 20/40/60/80 units in the direction he is looking. Up to 5 or 6 charges(Results as a free Tablet of Command effect without the stats)
OR //edit: just got the idea! Instead of a push, he blinks forward in the direction he looks. Like a lightning bolt would have transferred him there. Would be a unique spell. Mix of ValkLeap/Tablet push and a usual blink.(Doesnt destroy trees, but he can still teleport uphill). Would kind of give him some freshness and uniqueness and his first skill shot(because he have to look actually in the direction)
I know it is a suggestion, but it is also a balance aspect-->balancing him up to the level the other heroes are.
Last edited by je`Rome; 02-26-2012 at 11:15 AM.
I kinda like that there exists a hero that brings virtually nothing except a boatload of damage.
Problem is that now it feels like alot of heroes pack a shitload more singletarget and AE damage than thunderbringer. Either other heroes needs their damage toned down, or TB needs his damage upped. Don't give him additional stuns and slows and ****, not every hero needs to come packing the lot.
Either buffing lighting rod, or his ms to 300-315, or his attack range would be a proper step. Hero is all about keeping range and good positioning, this would help him accomplish that without adding to the current stunfest.
You were the one who said those games proved your point. A teamfight is pretty close to exactly what i said. All they heros you listed pretty much either prevent their teammates from getting picked off, or can snare and isolate with their slows...
Anyway, this is a pretty pointless thread, so that's all I am going to say about that.
You pushing 1500 players out the lane with TB doesn't say much especially if they dont even bother to get a mana battery or vestments to counter tb.
You give mid to heros that can gank as well as use that gold/exp advantage to change the game (poly for instance). The whole point is TB cannot. He is not the strongest mid and is extremely gank prone. His risk reward is not worth it. Arachna can control a 1v1 lane better, but her team contribution afterwards is neglible. Vindi can push heros out of lane better, but theres no reason to give solo mid to him.
I've seen fnatic pick up TB a few times lately on their stream in some minor tournaments, clearly some people realize it's a useful hero (in fact the best team that HoN has ever had).
You can go around and say that he's useless, but he is not useless at all. His damage output is insane and his ult is useful beyond just the damage (****s up PK's for example)
Sure, his laning might not be the best, however he can recover from that pretty if played decently. People seem to think that it's impossible to recover from a rough laning, while that might be true in low level games, most good players don't give up just because their mid didn't win.
Stats are like women in bikinis, they are interesting to look at however they don't show you everything.
I think he is bad atm but not as bad as people make him out to be.
I feel the nerfs to his passive should be reverted. -The hero was very strong during the trilane phase for obvious reasons, though I think it was the players' fault for not trying something different against him.
His nerfs completely destroy him in the current metagame. He doesn't deal nearly enough damage anymore for the ammount of downsides that he has.
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