Thread: RAP Feedback Forum Rules and FAQ <- YOU MUST READ THIS BEFORE POSTING

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  1.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #1
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    Purpose of RAP Feedback

    RAP Feedback is for posting questions, suggestions, or discussions related to RAP.
    This forum is not for reporting other players, appealing suspensions, or contesting ticket results.
    In order to keep this forum as user-friendly and constructive as possible, we kindly request that you respect the following rules.

    RAP Feedback Forum Rules


      1. If you are asking a question, chances are it has already been answered!
      2. If the topic already exists you may post followup questions in the existing thread if something is still unclear
      3. Most basic questions are covered in the FAQ below

      1. See above for searching; redundant threads only cause more confusion for the users and more work for the moderators
      2. If a thread has been deleted or closed, it was deleted or closed for a reason. If you would like a reason why or want to request that it be re-opened please PM an RAP Feedback Moderator. Do NOT create a new thread.

      1. Non-constructive complaints are not valid topics
        • If you have a valid complaint, please contribute a suggestion on how to improve rather than complain about the current state
      2. All threads require one of the following prefixes: [Discussion], [Question], or [Suggestion].
        • When a thread has been resolved the tag will be changed to [Answered]
      3. Legitimate topics:
        • Questions related to RAP, its use, interface, and/or policy
        • Suggestions on how to improve RAP, its use, interface, and/or policy
        • Constructive discussion about RAP (perhaps to encourage suggestions from others)
      4. Every post of every thread should be productive and add to the discussion
        • Every post should either ask a question, answer a question, correct incorrect information, provide new information, or clarify previous comments
        • If you find a post that does not follow the rules, is off topic, or useless do NOT call attention to it; it only perpetuates the problem
      5. If you have a related comment that is no longer applicable to the thread topic please create a dedicated thread

      1. If you are the creator of a thread, put in a detailed thread title; the entire subject/question should be clear in the title
      2. If you are responding to a question do your best to cite your source

    Last edited by MacroHard; 05-22-2012 at 11:46 AM. Reason: formatting improvement

  2. #2
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    Thread Titles

    If your thread title is vague your thread will not be responded to by Frostburn or GM staff.
    Clear thread titles are essential for allowing future forum users to make the most out of the search function.

    Example of Vague/Poor/Bad Thread Titles: (actual examples)
    "FB please read"
    "I have a question"
    "isnt this reportable"
    "i just got warned"
    "why is it that..."
    "is this bannable?"
    "ticket unsuccessful"
    Such threads will no longer be reviewed by myself, and are unlikely to be reviewed by any of our hard working Senior Game Masters.

    Example of Good Thread Titles:
    "Please consider adding inappropriate vote kicking to RAP"
    "My in-game RAP interface does not seem to work properly"
    "Why the current RAP system will limit future growth"
    "My report for spamming wards in fountain was found innocent. Please clarify this policy."
    "Why was I warned for refusing to concede?"
    "How much GGG spam is bannable? How much is allowed?"
    These threads will be read and responded to within a few days, typically within 12 hours.
    Last edited by Achsin; 05-12-2015 at 11:58 AM.

  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #3
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    Frequently Asked Questions

    RAP Frequently Asked Questions
    Common Questions and Answers


    Basic Definitions and RAP Staff

    Q: What is RAP?
    The Report-A-Player (RAP) System is a community-based game enforcement establishment. It is run by Frostburn Studios with the strong support of volunteer Game Masters (GM) who devote their free time to improving your everyday game experience. Problematic players who have broken one of the official Heroes of Newerth Conduct Rules may be submitted via the RAP form in-game for review. The GMs will then scour through the reports and rule on each case. Offending players are then automatically punished by the RAP system.

    Q: How does RAP work?
    Every time a player gets reported, that ticket goes into a huge database. Each player is then automatically evaluated on their overall risk to the community. The precise algorithm is confidential, but the theory is rooted in common sense principals. Both the history of the reported player as well as the reliability of the reporting players factors in. For example, if a player has successfully reported many people in the past, his most recent ticket is likely to be valid. Similarly, if a player has been reported many times in a short period of time, it is very likely that this player is a problem. Tickets are then prioritized and assigned to our GMs based on which suspect is most likely to be guilty. The higher the risk, the quicker the report will be handled. Simple!

    Q: What is "griefing"?
    Griefing is a slang term for any action that intentionally causes another player grief. "Intentionally" is the key word. Please refer to the stickied thread "What is Griefing? Demystifying the Rules of Conduct and Common Reporting Mistakes" for detailed explanations and examples.

    Q: What is a GM? What can they do? Who are they?
    GM stands for "Game Master". They are responsible for reviewing submitted RAP tickets and deciding innocent, warning, or guilty. A GM cannot suspend a player without a attached RAP ticket, nor can they choose which tickets they review. They are identified in game and on the forums by the clan tag [GM] and maroon name color in game and on the forums. There are currently over 100 GMs and many more in training.

    Q: What is an SGM? What can they do? Who are they?
    SGM stands for "Senior Game Master". In addition to regular GM duties, SGMs are responsible for reviewing appeals. They may overturn GM decisions and manually suspend/un-suspend players. They can also assist with issues related to clan tags, clan names, and clan roster.

    The current SGMs are:

    Q: Which FB Staff members are involved with RAP?
    • Paranoid, Customer Service Manager
    • Smilie, Training and Recruitment/Head GM

    Q: Are GMs and SGMs paid FB employees?
    No. They are regular community members that volunteer time to help out Frostburn Studios. In return they are compensated with gold coins and maroon-name swag. The opinions and statements of GMs and SGMs are their own and do not reflect those of Frostburn Studios.

    Q: I was threatened to be suspended by a GM. What should I do?
    Take a screen-shot if possible and contact an SGM. We have a zero tolerance policy for GM abuse of power, even for an empty threat. When taking a screen-shot, please upload it via either or Do not use imageshack (due to advertisement spam). Please note that it is impossible for our GMs to manually ban you in any way, as they cannot review their own tickets.

    Q: How do I become a GM?
    Apply here: We get a lot of applicants, so please take the time to make your application stand out (in a good way).

    RAP Navigation, Usage, and Reporting

    Q: How do I use RAP?
    To file a report, click the banhammer shaped button next to the name of the person you wish to report. This can be done after the match or while the game is in progress.

    Reporting After the Match:
    Click the banhammer button next to the player name in the match stat summary page

    Select your category, select the approximate time it occurred, type in a brief description, then click submit


    Reporting During the Match:
    Click the banhammer button next to the player name within the kill scoreboard in game

    Select the category and click submit

    Once that is done, continue playing your match as normal. The regular report menu will pop up once the match completes. The player name, time of offense, and category will be automatically populated. You may then add a description if you want and click submit


    Q: How do I know which player controls a disconnected ally?
    1. Go to Options -> Sound and enable "Unit Reactions" and move the delay slider to 0
    2. Open replay and set perspective to the player that is disconnected
    3. Watch the match from that players view; make sure you can hear his unit reactions
    4. Find out the point where he was controlled
    5. Switch replay view to the player you suspect controlled the disconnected hero
    6. Left click the disconnected hero. You will hear the disconnected hero's unit reactions when moved
    7. If you cannot hear unit reactions, switch view to another suspect until you find the correct one
    8. If you cannot hear unit reactions for any of the four players, you probably skipped steps 1 or 3 =)

    Example: You suspect Chipper is feeding the disconnected Pebbles. After following the above steps you hear Pebbles "Two birds with one stone!" unit reaction while watching the replay from Chipper's point of view. Chipper is confirmed to be the one who was controlling Pebbles.

    Q: How do I know which player controls and feeds the courier?
    See this thread.

    Q: How do I report something that happens outside of a match (and therefore cannot submit a ticket)?
    If it happened outside of any match, you must take a screen-shot as proof. Send the screen-shot(s) to an SGM via PM and he or she will take action as necessary. If it happened in a match you were not in, you may open up the match stats page and submit a report as usual. When taking a screen-shot, please upload it via either or Do not use imageshack.

    Q: What do I do if two different people grief in the same match?
    Please file a separate report for each player. Due to the nature of suspensions being automatically generated from tickets, only the player that is selected in the report will be punished. For example, if your ticket is filed against Player A and says "Player A and Player B both intentionally fed!", only Player A will be punished. The GM team will NOT manually take action against the other player mentioned in the ticket description.

    Q: Where are the emails? What do the RAP emails look like?
    You will only receive an email from RAP if you are warned or found guilty of violating the rules of conduct. If you are not receiving emails, the email address provided when you created your account may not be correct. It is important that you provide your real email when creating a new account, as a false email cannot be recovered or changed at a later time. If your email is correct, please check your spam folder.

    Warning email:
    Hello MacroHard,

    A Game Master (GM) has reviewed the Report-A-Player ticket filed against you and has issued you a WARNING for the following:

    Ticket ID: 876543
    Match ID: 98765432
    GM Explanation: Please refrain from avoiding AFK detection.

    Due to the results of the judgment, you have received a warning. Future rulings may increase the severity of your punishment. Please review the Conduct Rules to prevent future infractions.

    Thank you,

    Heroes of Newerth Report-A-Player System

    GM Inquiries:
    Conduct Rules:
    Ban Appeals:

    Guilty email:
    Hello MacroHard,

    A Game Master (GM) has reviewed the Report-A-Player ticket filed against you and has ruled you GUILTY of the following:

    Ticket ID: 876543
    Match ID: 98765432
    GM Explanation: Begins to intentionally feed at 19:35

    Your suspension ends on Smarch 32 2012, 12:34:56 EST (-5 GMT). Future rulings may increase the severity of your punishment. Please review the Conduct Rules to prevent future infractions.

    Thank you,

    Heroes of Newerth Report-A-Player System

    GM Inquiries:
    Conduct Rules:
    Ban Appeals:

    Q: How do I know if my reports are successful? Why don't the people filing the reports get emails?
    Players get confirmation of their reports in-game upon submitting a ticket. If there is a problem with RAP the system will notify you at that time.

    If your ticket was used in a guilty decision, you will receive an email notifying you of the successful ticket. All other individual ticket results, including guilty decisions under a different ticket, are not emailed because the final verdict may not be relevant to the reporter's ticket. The RAP system typically addresses players with multiple tickets, and all of them are reviewed together. If one ticket is innocent but another is guilty, the player will be suspended and both tickets will be closed. We do not want to send a guilty email to all people who submitted a ticket because it may be in error and we do not want to send any wrong messages.

    Player A reports Player B in Match X for backdooring.
    Player C reports Player B in Match Y for intentionally feeding.

    Player B gets banned, but we do not want to send a confirmation email to Player A that his ticket was successful. We do not want Player A to think (and possibly tell others) that the offense he reported for is now against the rules. Player C, however, will receive a successful email as his ticket was the one used for the decision.

    A full explanation for this policy can be found here.

    Q: Why can you not vote-kick another player?
    All evidence indicated the following: The average player would rather win than have a "good game". When a kick was warranted (to remove a griefing player), the enemy team would inevitably downvote it. If the kick was abusive (to remove a player you simply didn't like), the enemy team would be likely to pass it.

    Vote kick was ultimately removed because it was abused far more often than it was used for its intended purpose. We considered many alternative options, including reducing the vote to team-only and then make it RAP-able to initiate an abusive kick. The problem with that proposal was that sometimes legitimate kicks are not readily proven (such as VOIP abuse), which would lead to suspending innocent players. In the end we decided it was best to remove vote-kick entirely and rely on the new RAP 3.0 (now with in-game reporting!) for exacting revenge. There is no longer temptation to use a "feature" as a tool for griefing.

    Bans, Suspension, and Ticket Resolution

    Q: About how many tickets does the RAP system actually handle?
    We currently process about 5,000 tickets per week, on average.

    Q: How are tickets assigned?
    Tickets are automatically assigned to whichever GM is currently requesting another ticket. GMs are not assigned a list of tickets from which they pick and choose, and they do not skip tickets. Even if a ticket is skipped (the GM loses internet connection, for example) that ticket is then recycled and assigned to a different GM. From the reporter's point of view all griefing appears the same, but from a large-scale system view certain tickets deserve quicker attention. For example, a ticket against a new account that has also been reported by other people may be given higher priority than a ticket against a two-year-old account that has never once been reported.

    Q: What are the possible outcomes for reporting a player?
    "Close", "Innocent", "Warning", "Guilty"

    Q: What does "close" mean?
    A ticket is closed when it is removed from the GM queue (but not deleted) without a decision being made for that specific ticket.

    Common causes for ticket closures:
    • Replay is not available
    • Compatizing is broken
    • The player is not suspended because the offense cannot be proven. Similarly, the person reporting should not be penalized for submitting an innocent ticket because the offense cannot be dis-proven. An example of this includes accidental bug exploitation.

    Q: What does "innocent" mean? Did he get away with it because I put an inaccurate time stamp?
    Innocent means no Rules of Conduct violation was found. GM's review the entire replay to find the offense described in the ticket. The time stamp is mostly used to help expedite the process. However, a vague description along with a very inaccurate time stamp may result in an innocent decision.

    Q: What does a "warning" mean? Is it really grey-area?
    A warning is typically the result of a first time minor offenses. They may also be used for questionable/borderline behavior, for example, highly suspicious feeding that cannot be proved to be intentional. Warnings do not result in suspension but stay on a player's permanent record. If a player has been previously warned he/she will be found guilty and suspended if similar conduct persists.

    Q: What happens to a "guilty" player?
    A player that is found guilty will be suspended. When a player is suspended (one of the submitted reports against an individual was valid), that report will be marked as guilty in the player portal. In addition to this, all currently open tickets against that individual will ALSO be marked as guilty, and everyone receives an in-game notification.

    The suspension duration depends on type of offense and previous history as follows:

    Inappropriate Account Nickname
    Offense #DurationOther
    1Suspended until name is changedName Change
    21 DayName Change
    31 MonthName Change
    4+3 MonthsName Change

    Verbal Abuse
    Offense #DurationOther
    13 Days3 Days Mute (after suspension ends)
    25 Days3 Days Mute (after suspension ends)
    31 Week1 Week Mute (after suspension ends)
    42 Weeks2 Weeks Mute (after suspension ends)
    53 Weeks2 Weeks Mute (after suspension ends)
    61 Month2 Weeks Mute (after suspension ends)
    72 Months2 Weeks Mute (after suspension ends)
    83 Months2 Weeks Mute (after suspension ends)
    94 Months2 Weeks Mute (after suspension ends)
    10+6 Months2 Weeks Mute (after suspension ends)

    All Others (Griefing, Ability Abuse, etc)
    Offense #Duration
    13 Days
    25 Days
    31 Week
    42 Weeks
    53 Weeks
    61 Month
    72 Months
    83 Months
    94 Months
    10+6 Months

    Q: What is the "mute feature"? What does it actually do?
    The mute feature is simply an added penalty for verbal abuse cases. After the regular suspension ends, a probationary mute period kicks in. During this time a player can join and host games but will be unable to communicate; they cannot chat, send whispers, send private messages, or use VOIP. This penalty also applies to the public chat channels out of game. They will still be able to send messages to players on their friend list. Much like the suspension itself, the mute period is temporary and has its own scaling duration based on player history.

    Q: Why implement the "mute feature"?
    As said above, it is added punishment and therefore added deterent for verbal abuse. In addition to an extended punishment, the mute feature also serves as a rehabilitation tool. A period of self-reflection is imperitive for recovery. Players will be forced to play while simultaneously holding their tongue and containing their rage. Our studies have shown that this is a more effective tool for correcting the behavior than simply extending the suspension duration. Indeed, there have been thousands of cases where somebody has been found guilty of verbal abuse on their very first day back from serving a suspension for verbal abuse. Our hopes is that abusive players will learn that it is possible to play HON and have fun without verbally assaulting other players.

    Q: Won't muting players hurt innocent people who are teamed up with them due to lack of communication?
    This was a major concern of ours as well. Communication is indeed crucial for success in HON. However, upon reviewing hundreds of chat logs from players who were found guilty of verbal abuse we discovered a remarkable trend: players who are prone to abuse were not likely to communicate positively. The guy who insulted your mother was not calling missing enemies. The guy who insulted your religion was not pointing out rune spawns. The guy who tells you to kill yourself in real life was not coordinating strategy.

    We found that what little communication was made contributed to the overall degradation of team morale. This is more hurtful to a team's success than any "missed call" could be. Because of this, we ultimately decided that "no communication" is better than "overwhelming negative communication with a small chance of positive communication" when it comes to these kinds of individuals.

    When all else fails, players may use the in-client integrated chat system by pressing Alt and clicking the screen. This way players can still communicate at a fundamental level (such as "Enemy missing from bottom lane" or "Rune top" or "Defend middle tower") while being muted by RAP.

    Q: Why does an in-game RAP ban also come with a forum ban?
    If an account is suspended via RAP, that account will also be suspended from the forums. There are two reasons for this. First, we wish to avoid retaliatory rage posts (which often involves exaggeration of the truth). Second, the forum ban automatically redirects the player to appeal their suspension; without this feature many players would not know how to appeal. If you are suspended from the game and wish to view the forums you can simply log out and read the forums as a visitor.

    Q: How do suspensions affect sub-accounts?
    All accounts attached to the guilty player are equally punished and simultaneously suspended. A friend playing on your sub-account is no excuse!

    Q: Can't somebody just keep creating new accounts and continue to grief?
    We have a few protections against this.
    • There is a limit of how many accounts an IP can create.
      • In time he will run out and be forced to play with one of the accounts that had been previously banned
      • There are other checks to prevent multi-accounting in addition to IP

    • The verification system is in place to protect players against such griefers
      • Somebody who repeatedly creates accounts to troll, grief, or smurf will forever be matched with other trolls, griefers, and smurfs

    • Punishment can go beyond the account in question
      • Most "I'll just make another account" threats are by people who are either bluffing or own a primary account with Verified status
      • They play seriously and purchase cosmetics on a main account while trolling/griefing on newly created accounts
      • These attached accounts (even if not direct sub-account) can also be banned or even permanently disabled

    • IP addresses can be banned under certain circumstances

    Q: Do infractions expire?
    RAP infractions, when reported, do expire. After how long or how many games?... well that's proprietary knowledge. The best course of action is to grief as little as possible (or better yet never).

    Q: I am afraid that I will get reported for minor fights, or stupid things like "kill stealing" or "backdooring".
    While you may get reported more frequently with the new system, do remember that every ticket is still reviewed by a living breathing HON player. The assignment is automated, but the ticket review itself is still manually done. If you have not broken any rules you have nothing to fear for being reported.


    Q: I am suspended but did not deserve it. What do I do?
    First review the Rules of Conduct and make sure you are in fact innocent. If you still think you were unfairly punished, you may file an appeal here:
    . Be sure to log into the correct account/sub-account that was supended when filing an appeal.

    Q: How are appeals reviewed?
    Appeals are looked at in the order they are received by an SGM. Once an SGM has responded you have 24 hours to respond back and further explain your case before it is archived. Decisions on appeals are final and cannot be appealed further.

    Rule Clarifications

    Q: Is backdooring against the rules?

    Q: Player XYZ is verbally abusing me out of game through whispers and/or PM. Is this reportable?
    Yes, but you must take a screen-shot as proof. Send the screen-shot(s) to an SGM and he or she will take action as necessary. When taking a screen-shot, please upload it via either or Do not use imageshack.

    Q: Player XYZ messaged me after I was suspended to make fun of me and brag that he reported me. Is this reportable?
    Yes, but you must take a screen-shot as proof. Send the screen-shot(s) to an SGM and he or she will take action as necessary. When taking a screen-shot, please upload it via either or Do not use imageshack.

    Q: Why was I was found guilty in a match where another player griefed me first?
    Retributive griefing is not an exception to the Rules of Conduct. Another player griefing you does not give you the right to grief back. We recommend that you ignore the player as best you can and report him/her after the match.

    Q: What is "illogical refusal to participate"?
    Illogical refusal to participate is a special type of AFK Abuse. Players that farm endlessly with zero intent to help their team win/defend have no more value than a player sitting behind the fountain. Be warned though! The nature of this offense makes it highly subjective! It must be obvious that the intent is to ignore the team rather than simply trying to farm in the hopes to win later. Some players simply like to farm A LOT and they are entitled to do so. For a suspect to be found guilty there must be clear incidents where continued farming is illogical (such as attacking snotters instead of defending base towers/barracks). Reporting somebody for Illogical Refusal to Participate when they haven't come out of the jungle with Wildsoul in a game that is conceded at 15 minutes will probably be found innocent. Remember, there is a difference between "farming all game with the intent to get strong and win for the team" and "farming all game with the intent to ignore your team completely."

    Q: Is it against the rules to have a friend protect you from being AFK Kicked by voting it down? Why?
    No. This was previously the case, but has been rendered obsolete as of Oct 26, 2012. As it now only requires two votes to kick an AFK player, players may now attempt to "save" their friend from getting a leave without consequence.

    Q: Is wasting wards in the fountain against the rules?
    It depends. Wasting wards is against the Rules of Conduct under "Item Spamming" as long as the match has yet to be unquestionably determined (99%+ likelihood of a certain team winning). Wards are purchased with a cooldown, so if they are available to waste within the last minute then they were not being used for productive purposes earlier in the match. We will not punish players who waste a few wards if there is zero chance of a comeback victory and the outcome of the match is entirely unaffected. Please note that whether or not the winner has been determined is decided by the GM and not decided by the player. Claiming a match is "over" does not make it so.

    Q: Is confessing to troll/grief against the rules even if they are not doing anything explicitly ban-worthy?
    No. Only actions matter. For example, somebody dies unintentionally after making a very poor decision. Rather than own up to "being bad" that player would rather pretend that it was intentional. Irrational? Yes. Confessing? Yes. Intentionally feeding? Not necessarily.

    Q: How do I know if a nickname is inappropriate?
    Names that contain any of the following are inappropriate:
    • Discrimination against race, color, ethnicity, creed, national original, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, age, religion, marital status, or disability
    • Negative stereotype with regards to any of the above
    • Sexually explicit words or phrases
      • Please note that names that are sexually suggestive are not necessarily sexually explicit

    • English profanity, or obvious bypass thereof
    • Promotion of globally or historically significant societal injustices or catastrophes
      • Please note that names that mention or refer to such injustice are not necessarily promoting it
      • "AdolfHiter" will not be deemed inappropriate
      • "IKilledJews" will be marked inappropriate
    Last edited by dav787; Yesterday at 03:01 PM. Reason: Updated suspension durations with RaP 4.0
    When I was younger I had an imaginary friend.
    Now, with Facebook, I have hundreds of imaginary friends.

    -American proverb

  4.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #4
    Account Icon
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    26 April 2012new question: "I got an email apologizing that you could not review my ticket in a timely manner. Does that mean my ticket got ignored?"
    29 April 2012updated courier response (aka Talking Monkey) honmod link
    01 May 2012clarified vote-kick policy
    02 May 2012new question: "Is wasting wards in the fountain against the rules?"
    02 May 2012added changelog so you can see what's new
    22 May 2012bumping your suspension appeal will no longer mess up the queue!
    23 May 2012new question: "Why is RAP not available for Mid Wars?"
    01 Jun 2012new question: "I tried to report someone, but it says he was already reported. What does this mean?"
    11 Jun 2012new question: "What do I do if two different people grief in the same match?"
    11 Jun 2012new question: "How do I know if a nickname is inappropriate?"
    19 Jun 2012added new appeal option
    25 Jun 2012clarification on inappropriate names
    27 Jun 2012When taking a screen-shot, please upload it via either or Do not use imageshack.
    11 Jul 2012new question: "I received two different result emails for the same ticket. What does this mean?"
    18 Jul 2012new question: "How are tickets assigned? Why are some tickets handled within minutes and others seemingly not at all?"
    18 Jul 2012clarification on closed tickets
    24 July 2012new question: "Is it against the rules to have a friend protect you from being AFK Kicked by voting it down? Why?"
    29 Aug 2012new question: "Can't somebody just keep creating new accounts and continue to grief?"
    29 Aug 2012new question: "Are there any tools to quickly review verbal abuse cases?"
    05 Sep 2012new question: "Why does an in-game RAP ban also come with a forum ban?"
    13 Sep 2012new question: "Do infraction points expire?"
    13 Sep 2012new question: "Do infractions expire?"
    20 Sep 2012reworded vote-kick policy to clarify that kicked players will still get mmr and a win on their record
    30 Oct 2012new super baller table of contents!
    30 Oct 2012rule change regarding "AFK via Associate"
    09 Nov 2012removed thread link for appealing innocent tickets
    10 Dec 2012new question: "Where are the emails? What do the RAP emails look like?"
    12 Dec 2012merged thread title rules with this thread
    23 Feb 2013updated heavily for RAP 3.0
    13 Feb 2017updated a bit for RAP 4.0 (suspension durations, tickets outcome)
    Last edited by dav787; 02-13-2017 at 01:17 PM.
    When I was younger I had an imaginary friend.
    Now, with Facebook, I have hundreds of imaginary friends.

    -American proverb

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