[2.5.11]Bound Eye

[GregerMoek]

I do not see much of a problem from the item since it is equally viable for both teams. Seems to me like a similar situation with Sol's Bulwark. The team that capitalizes on counter-warding first should reap a benefit from the new edge, while the opposite team should quickly buy an eye to get on the same footing. ex. Their carry is farming well so lets gank him -> they are counter warding us so lets do something. I blame a team instead of the item for watching as they are being outplayed.

With that logic every single item is balanced, no matter what it does and how OP it is because both teams can get it.

[[HoRe]Kunkka]

One thing I have not seen directly mentioned is Bound Eye's effect on game length.

Removing wards from the map allows your gankers to gank, which helps kill farming heroes. By doing this you are able to keep games shorter than farmfests.

Item is fine as it is for almost every hero ( bar and ); these 2 heroes could use a slight vision nerf (they are top tier bans right now because of it). Eye should have no ownership when it is first bought to prevent the itemdrop locking, it's fairly obvious that that is an unneeded abuse of a mechanic

[LordTroll]

I'd just like to add that it's not at all correct to state that Bound Eye completely counters Scout, specifically.

It completely counters Night Hound since all his invisibility spell does is grant invisibility, which doesn't allow the hero to play as a scout for ganks, or roam, or simply act illusive at times with hitting and running in risky situations thanks to his guaranteed invisibility.

On the other hand, Scout's invisibility comes with a big movespeed boost AND a steroid aspect, obviously his very high attack speed boost when coming out of Vanish. Sure it takes some potential from Scout, aka scouting like Night Hound is meant to do, but he sure can perform effectively even when revealed since he will still move fast and have very high attack speed to unload.

[foxmindedguy]

Bound eye on Tundra.

700 gold and you have completely shut down enemy wards and as a result their map awareness. That is a huge thing. Is the item too strong? Personally, I feel a few nerfs wouldn't go amiss, on certain heroes the item is INCREDIBLY strong.

That is dealing with the actual problem in an indirect manner. If Tundra, Fayde, EW etc use Bound Eye to its maximum potential. Then perhaps the problem is with them and not Bound Eye.

I have said this again, Bound Eye being a problem simply indicates this game has some absurd clear-vision on heroes.

[Herbert_West]

The item is pretty much just as big a problem on teams that have no clearvision hero, so I don't get your point.

[[IaF]Skyve]

That is dealing with the actual problem in an indirect manner. If Tundra, Fayde, EW etc use Bound Eye to its maximum potential. Then perhaps the problem is with them and not Bound Eye.

I have said this again, Bound Eye being a problem simply indicates this game has some absurd clear-vision on heroes.

Or we address items that make certain mechanics broken, reducing limitations you want to put on design. Also it's not just those heroes that abuse it. Courier work just as well.
And yes, Eye is the problem.

[pechkin]

Or we address items that make certain mechanics broken, reducing limitations you want to put on design. Also it's not just those heroes that abuse it. Courier work just as well.
And yes, Eye is the problem.

or we dont make conclusions based on nothing, what competitive game you are talking about where eye was abused so hard?
Eye does not make anything broken, it just counters, in pretty limited area.

[GregerMoek]

When was the last game you didn't see Eye picked up?

[pechkin]

when was the last game you didnt see boots picked up?

[Xinlitik]

Why not make eye have an active ability, 10 seconds of true sight, 45 sec ccd or something like that. That way you can't just stroll around the map clearing wards, you have to put some thought into where you want to activate it. And it definitely should not be usable on courier.

[[IaF]Skyve]

when was the last game you didnt see boots picked up?

So you're trying to put Eye on a level with Boots and say it's not OP :/

Edit:

http://www.gamereplays.org/heroesofn...streams/h4nn1/

Currently fnatic without wards because of Tundra with Eye and getting ganked everywhere because they have no vision.

[pechkin]

So you're trying to put Eye on a level with Boots and say it's not OP :/

Edit:

http://www.gamereplays.org/heroesofn...streams/h4nn1/

Currently fnatic without wards because of Tundra with Eye and getting ganked everywhere because they have no vision.

i see, 0/5 tremble, 0/9 monarch, it was surely gem that lost them the game.

[LordTroll]

Not having map vision at all was a big part in that, fool, that's what Skyve is getting across.

[[IaF]Skyve]

i see, 0/5 tremble, 0/9 monarch, it was surely gem that lost them the game.

The gem prevented them from ever recovering anything, because that's kinda what not having vision does to you.

[[DOTA]Ainion]

People keep saying "what if a team loses a teamfight and they get counterwarded?"

Well, let's see. The other team bought an eye. If you kill that eye carrier, he's boned and out 700 gold. Somehow, you didn't kill him. They WIPE your team and keep the eye, while one of their heroes is missing an entire item slot.

You're punishing good play. If someone invested into 700 gold, he should get the free counter-warding.

Just make it so courier can't pick up eye and it's balanced.

[[IaF]Skyve]

The other team bought an eye. If you kill that eye carrier, he's boned and out 700 gold.

No, he's not. You have to pick it up first. Chances are when you die you're closer to an ally than an enemy, and he picks it up for you. Happens incredibly often.
Which is why I suggested making it so you can't pick up an eye for some time after the owner died - that allows for teams to kill the carrier in a teamfight and disable it for the time being, and then the winner of the fight gets the eye.
Perfect way to do this would be to disallow the pick-up until only heroes of one team (or no heroes at all) are in X range of the eye (~900 would be good).
That way you always get rewarded for killing the carrier, but the pick-up of the item is "less random" (I mean really, h4nn1 could have lived in that last fight if he wasn't an idiot and picked up the eye before using steambath).

[[TECH]Gorb]

I'm in the crowd of preventing minions/courier from picking up Bound Eye. On a hero it seems perfectly acceptable given that

• it can't be sold
• it gives no stats
• it drops on death (where not only can it be destroyed but it can be used by the other team)

I don't think I've seen a comprehensive argument as to why the Eye is too strong beyond the fact you can put it on a courier.

Comparisons with heroes like Tundra are not the point, because Tundra's minions are their own balance problem.

[[IaF]Skyve]

Comparisons with heroes like Tundra are not the point, because Tundra's minions are their own balance problem.

The interaction of clearvision with certain items is the balance problem here.
Considering Puzzlebox is fine though (now just in terms of abuseability on heroes like Tundra/Fayde/EW and other heroes with clearvision), I'd say the problem lies more with the Eye and how cheap it is.

[changlingbob]

I have said this again, Bound Eye being a problem simply indicates this game has some absurd clear-vision on heroes.

Flying courier.

[changlingbob]

i see, 0/5 tremble, 0/9 monarch, it was surely gem that lost them the game.

You appear to have confused cause and effect. While it may be trivial to observe, the reason those heroes were doing badly was because the other team had bound eye, and so yes, it was definitely bound eye that lost them that game, as they couldn't move safely around the map at any point.