|
|
Please cut it out with this stupid "not for valve".Originally Posted by Dizzyreed
Revenue and Profit are two different things. You may have tripledigit revenues but single digit profits in a company. And in such cases 1.6 millions are a huge number to spend on "nothing" since DotA2 made no money yet.
Those S2 numbers are also pretty dangerous!
Those 400,000 copies didn't mean 12 million dollars, since there were plenty $20 and $10 specials. So it might be closer to $10,000,000.
Also the game was developed for about 3 years - also with company-related costs like infrastructure and so on. Furthermore they maintained 14 months of hosting servers and further game development.
So you have $10,000,000 for developing a game and maintaining infrastructure and a company over 4 years. I don't really think there have been $4,000,000 profits like your quote implies.
UABOUT NOMAD?
I think people grossly overestimate how much money S2 has.
And yes, 1.6 is A LOT of money for any company.
It's still like 1/1000 of what the top teams could make from SC2/DoTA/LoL. Theres no incentive to play this game at a competitive and proffesional level (hence the lack of any decent sponsors outside of MSI and Perhaps Fray). Dominating every tournament in HoN is about as rewarded as being a top 30 DoTA2 team, an unknown western ladder SC2 player who goes to local lans or a mildly talented LoL player (streaming that game, no matter how **** you are gets you tones of views. There are players far less skilled than an 1600 HoN players that get thousands of viewers - just comes with the playerbase size).
I dont like this $1.6 million being alot for "any" company. Thats bullshit ignorance. To litterally thousands of big companies, that money is NOTHING. You think $1.6 million means **** to microsoft? Apple? A mining company? A major bank or fast food joint. Get out of town.
As for Valve, an Investment of $1.6 would be considerable, but if you dont think they are sitting on at bare minimum tens of millions of dollars to work with I think you are kidding yourself. And it is what I said, an INVESTMENT. Theyll get that money back easily with the competition/interest/ad revenues/tournaments everything etc. Unless something goes horribley wrong, I see it as a safe investment with a high reward.
Last edited by Wolfrar; 02-20-2012 at 04:13 AM.
They dont have offices (that they rent)? They dont have equipment, computers, office materials and stuff? They dont pay tax? They dont pay voice actors and other people not hired by them for services? They dont pay for servers, and garena stuff? The list could be made imense long. You see, I have no idea how much profit they make. But counting only employes salleries as a cost is dumb and no one should even try to talk about this whithout having any info. =)
Yes, I am familiar with what hype is, thanks for inquiring. However what is going on in the DotA2 scene has gone far beyond hype at this point, it has steadied itself as a highly competitive game with large tournaments. At what point, by your definition, does a game stop being overhyped and start being a legitimate competitive game? When you lay down a large inital investment, and encourage virtually every gaming sponsor in the industry to pick up a team in your game, and sponsor large tournaments, it means you have done a good job. This is called successful marketing, are you familiar with that term?
And dear God, the IQ of everyone that had the misfortune to read this has just dropped significantly. Here is my quote that you responded to:
Here is the full original quote in its entirety.
You can be as retarded as you like if you choose to blatantly ignore parts of peoples posts and selectively edit them. I would normally dismiss you as just trying to troll me, but the stupidity you have just demonstrated is quite believable really. The entire point I was trying to make is that DotA2, unlike League of Legends is running off sponsor supported tournaments, rather than tournaments funded by the game makers themselves (Read: Riot). Honestly, do you even manage to dress yourself in the morning?
overall its just the better game
that's all it comes down to
context; this post has none
S2 definitely has the money; they are rolling in cash. Don't know why they don't want to compete with DOTA 2/LoL tourney-wise though.
LOL made me laugh
"better game" leads to better community better following more players more sustainable scene etc. but i'm not venturing into that
the it's gosu dota2 tournament pre qualifier #1 had 120 teams sign up for the tournament
of them i think 90 showed up, make of it what you will, just there to show the size of the following
Last edited by PAINTITGOLD; 02-20-2012 at 07:11 AM.
What I see in this thread is people whining about is people who place top5 in DotA or is Code S classed player making money whilst someone who scrims once a week, whines alot and casually smurfs isn't.
I've played SC2 on a semi-competetive level (I was top 200 in EU during the 5rax reaper era e.g I was one of the very very few zergs in top200) and if you think all you do is play SC2 3 hours a day and win lots of cash you're wrong.
Unless you're a Code S (where you make about 1500$/month) player you don't make _****_ the average salary from a progaming team that's not EG/coL (that you already need to have performed really good or have a huge following to get an offer from) you don't make more than 500$/month in salary. (confirmed on TL board/reddit by FXOBoSS)
I played SC2 10-14 hours a day for three months (that's already after spending the entire beta playing the same amount to become decent) and I earned 20$ in total, ever from playing that game and that's being one of the few 25-30 zergs in top200 at the time.
Now can you tell me you play HoN ~12 hours a day every day and will continue to do so for three months?
Now from a business point of view;
Why would Maliken as the head of S2 want to spend his earnings into trying to develop a game that's being pulled further down the drain every single month not only by S2 itself but by the community aswell?
Would YOU spend $10,000 into making 30 people really happy for about two weeks?
Knowing the HoN community I would say no, you wouldn't.
DotA has a brand that tells people something and has a big history of popularity and creativity (being the first big MOBA), that's why big companies is willing to put their name on the brand DotA, because it has a huge following that's respected.
HoN as a brand has nothing, at all.
There's different opinions about the game depending on who you ask and in the end of the day everyone who plays it on "competetive level" has alot bad things to say about it, even if they praise it in general.
It has no hype, no extensive history, no real "WOW" factors from previous run events.
Why would a company with the money you're asking for want to invest into HoN when there's SC2, DotA, Fighting Games (SF, MVC, SC) for example?
All of these games has a 10x popularity and playerbase which garauntees their brand to be seen by 10x the amount of people.
Sure it sucks HoN doesn't have a 1,000,000 million playerbase and bigshot companies like Intel, AMD or alike wants to invest into it but whining about it on an internal forum isn't gonna help one single bit.
In the end the 1500 MMR people don't give two shits about any comp player, they just play the game for fun which funnily enough makes the comp scene a joke as not even their own scene looks up to them.
E.g HoN doesn't need competetive players to survive which further justifies my point that investing into HoN's comp scene is a waste of money.
Why?
Because HoN is a casual game.
At the point when DotA2 (or whatever it will be called then) goes retail.
Unfortunately I am familiar with this term so I have to ask you to rephrase it - you may call it advertising. Marketing is "slightly more" than advertising.
That's a nice reaction, almost as good as your other post which states "I won't prove my statement right, YOU prove my wrong!".
To make it really obvious to you again:
DotA2 is not making any money as of now. It's a beta. Everything going on over there is related to a really really huge hype.
Riot is making money to pay their season prizepool. Valve isn't.
So Valve is spending out of their own pocket whereas Riot is just taking a part of their income to redistribute among their players.
Riot-Expense: Just less profits. Valve-Expense: $1,6m.
Do you realize now, what's going on and what was wrong with your post saying Valve didn't spend much on tournaments?
They don't have the revenues to redirect, it's all hard cash out of their pockets for a game they - right now - can't be sure about to take the crown. Why do you blame them for that?
U
This
This is not a determining factor in any way. The state it's in now could in theory go on forever (minus one or two factors which are obviously coming) and it would still be a perfectly competitive sport. As long as sponsors are willing to drop money on tournaments, and in return get advertisement for their companies, they can sustain tournaments. The only thing Valve needs to do to facilitate this is maintaining its servers (and this is the only thing couldn't go on forever without any form of income on Valves part, but this is obviously coming) it doesn't need anything else to be considered a perfectly legitimate tournament game, other than to be the game that it is.
The irony is that you're calling me out in the next part of your reply for saying "I won't prove my statement, you have to prove me wrong". And completely avoiding doing it yourself. Why precisely isn't it considered marketing? Spell it out for me. Marketing is not exclusively limited to turning a profit, it is defined as a way of distributing your product to your consumer audience, when your actions (i.e $1.6 mill tournaments) are growing your net audience, attracting investors, and growing your core of consumers it is marketing.
Almost as good as your reaction to a cherry-picked quote where you cut out the entire core of what nullified your entire reaction, and then proceeded to throw around all sorts of random things and asking if I'm insane? Good work there buddy.
Wrong. You can not solely attribute DotA2's success solely to hype. There are MANY games where hype alone is not enough to sustain success. For the point that it's at, DotA2 is already above and beyond where it anticipated being at this point, so much so that they are releasing a beta-beta version of the game, simply so they can test and develop things on a client that won't affect the main game, because it has taken off in such a drastic fashion. The fact it is an extremely well developed game, and it has only been in a (quite closed) beta for less than half a year. Compare it to where HoN was in it's early beta, and it was also flagged as "The next gen DotA game", and that was back when it was almost DotA 1-for-1, and it has nowhere near the success that DotA2 is having right now. To call it simply just hype at this point is naive.
I don't think I stated anywhere that Valve is making large profits. I'm not sure where you seem to be getting that impression. All I said, is that MINUS THE INTERNATIONAL, it has spent virtually nothing on any other tournaments, yet the game has a thriving competitive scene, far outdoing anything HoN has to offer, without providing anything other than the game itself. I really don't understanding why you're so eager to pick apart what was a rather innocuous statement to begin with.
Last edited by Dyzfunkshun; 02-20-2012 at 10:50 AM.
I wouldn't say better, I'd say easier. The game is not better than HON on any level except that it's slower so easier for people to play.
damn CRiTiCiZED`dropped a nuke on this thread.
- Intentionally misquoting users
- Bandwagon statements with non-constructive intent
lmfao the desperation is hilarious --^
¨This year we’re up against some big competition with League of Legends hosting a $5M Season and the DotA2 International in August. While S2 could compete directly with these games in a dollar for dollar sense, we won’t and we take a different approach¨
Seems like alot of ppl missed this
"Better game" is subjective, but I do believe that Valve has the resources to make a better game than S2.
However HoN is a better game than the Dota map on WC3 and that didn't make every Dota player move to HoN. Go figure.
I read all this a few times and all I gathered from this was:
You're not entitled to anything because I didn't succeed in SC2.
No one is expecting to be paid anywhere near what dota or sc players are being paid. All I said was that 400 dollar prize pools are retardedly measly for a game this size, and it's costing the game competitive players. I can agree that 10k dollar monthly prize pools are over the top, but 400 dollars? Why would people play this game at a high level for 60 dollars a week (assuming you actually get first prize every week)?
What? Don't use the word business and then elaborate with this pile of crap as if there was any argument in it at all. Really?Now from a business point of view;
Why would Maliken as the head of S2 want to spend his earnings into trying to develop a game that's being pulled further down the drain every single month not only by S2 itself but by the community aswell?
Would YOU spend $10,000 into making 30 people really happy for about two weeks?
Knowing the HoN community I would say no, you wouldn't.
Can you stop making uneducated statements and treating them as if they are facts? Coming from a competitive player I can tell you that people in fact do care about competitive players. It's also pretty ridiculous to state that HoN doesn't need a competitive scene because it's a casual game, why wouldn't a game like HoN need one? People watch high level games regardless of whether they want to be competitive players, do it for fun or just want to learn from the best players - the same reasons I and my non-competitive friends watch starcraft streams and tournaments.In the end the 1500 MMR people don't give two shits about any comp player, they just play the game for fun which funnily enough makes the comp scene a joke as not even their own scene looks up to them.
E.g HoN doesn't need competetive players to survive which further justifies my point that investing into HoN's comp scene is a waste of money.
Why?
Because HoN is a casual game.
As to the rest of your post: I agree.
lol@ thinking that in dota you will make more, noone will give a **** about you, there are tonns of better teams to take money spot.
It's because no one actually believes that.
Posting Permissions
