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This item
- generally considered to be a move towards a pushing meta by S2
- costs 2000 gold
- has a relatively easy buildup
- armor aura propagates to heroes and allies and buildings
How does Sol's Bulwark compare to other minus armor items?
Compare shieldbreaker level 2, which costs 3600, has a harder but not so bad buildup, and features +55 damage and -4 armor debuff. Debuff generally only affects one hero at a time (exception: split shot).
In general I feel that Sol's Bulwark does too much and is thus overpowered. It functions both as a pushing item while also augmenting the damage capabilities of heroes with high physical burst (e.g. nomad). The aura is comparable to shieldbreaker and seems superior in many ways because it adds damage to every allied attack or reduces damage from every enemy attack. The tradeoff between a shieldbreaker 2 and sol's bulwark is 5 armor and 1600 gold versus 55 damage. Keep in mind that 1600 goes a long way into better damage items than shieldbreaker (e.g. savage). I think making such a strong item that builds into a lategame item, demonic breastplate, is also a mistake.
I think the item should be made into a pure offensive/defensive damage item or into a pure pushing item (aura increased back to 5 and only affecting towers and maybe allied heroes, lets say). I favor the latter. Further nerfs to its cost or numerical effect risk rendering useless for both purposes. Such a change might make its buildup into demonic breastplate acceptable.
Some thoughts:
- Are my comparisons between shieldbreaker and bulwark reasonable?
- If it were an option, would it better for this item not to exist at all?
- Would this item be acceptable as-is if it didn't build into demonic?
- Are there ways to reduce the numerical effect without ruining the item, or is there a conceptual issue?
Last edited by Ekamo; 02-09-2012 at 07:29 AM.
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Old : +5 armor, +/-5 armor Aura
New : +5 armor, +/-4 armor Aura
How it should have been : +6 armor, +/-4 armor Aura
Where did 1 armor disappear?
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About the Sol's - Shieldbreaker comparison
While Sol's lets you whole team do more physical damage, that increase is generally lower than what you (the carry) will do with SB, therefore ending fights earlier.
Also, Sol's is better to be gotten on heroes that last longer and stay in the middle of the battle, while the person with SB will usually drift in and out of the battle to avoid getting killed.
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The 1 armor disappeared in the aura...
On a more serious note, I would love to see the 'blue' aura (defensive) made stronger... My rework of sol's would be:
+5 armor, +5/-4 toggle aura, Radius of defensive: 1000, radius of offensive: Untouched.
This would MAYBE make Sol's used in a defensive measure more often. As of now, I virtually always see the item on offensive.
Last edited by Tomate; 02-09-2012 at 09:25 AM.
Tweaking the radius on the offensive aura is something I find interesting. Would in some situations maybe leave the player to a choice of priorities when it comes to positioning and other things.
Stats are like women in bikinis, they are interesting to look at however they don't show you everything.
Generally there'd be no positioning play, as Sol's is in general picked up by melee heroes who are tanky anyway; those heroes quite are quite happy to benefit from the +armour to increase their tankiness, and always apply the -armour to attacks on their target due to melee range being pretty close. Only ranged carriers would be affected, and that's basicallyOriginally Posted by GregerMoek
?
Actually, tweaking the radius (from 900?) means it affects the ranged team-mates of the melee carriers the most. Since that aura isn't applied to absolutely everyone in a teamfight, positioning of the melee hero to increase the dps of everyone is paramount. This only applies if the melee hero can stay within aura range of the important people, and time on target is very easily manipulated - there was an entire item that made the entire melee pool bar 2 heroes obsolete for a reason.
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I had a similar suggestion some time ago, but making it +7 with a +3/-3 aura (not toggled). http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...d.php?t=342038
Balance wise, I think this would help counter the Shieldbreaker + Sol's combo. By having it as a permanent aura, it would protect allies just as much as it hurts enemies; if both teams have one it a fight they simply cancel out. It is still useful for the pick-offs and carrying.
Also, like the_tes said, why would the completed item have less total armor than the components? Tthis is even wrong for an autocomplete item, let alone one that has nearly half the total cost wrapped up in the recipe.
Last edited by MacroHard; 02-09-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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sol's sucks now unless you get rich enough to get daemonic fast. freaking ring of teacher basically counters sol's lmao.
Make it +6/-4 and only -2 on towers.
Why would you want the positive effect to be more powerful than the positive effect of its upgrade?
Stats are like women in bikinis, they are interesting to look at however they don't show you everything.
It is balanced because it is available to both teams. huehue
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But if one team gets it early the snowballing effect is huge.
He was obvs trolling.
What he said was what Diva said when he was questioned about the balance aspect of this item.
Diva at his finest.
Gooby pls...
This.Best idea in current topic of discussion.
This makes more sense than the current version of the item to be sure.
Sol's needs a buff. Recipe should be reduced from 900 to 600 like astrolabe.
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