[2.5.9] Pestilence

[Fen__]

Sure Pestilence is a highly mobile hero, who gets relevantly tanky and dishes out good sustained damage, but the hero really does not have much going for him at the moment.

So you give him 3 very strong advantages and say that he doesnt have much going for him atm ? Btw you forgot to mention: great cc skil and a free basher.

I mean everyone admits that a stun that deals only 200 physical damage at max level really is a joke now a days. Considering other heroes deal average nuke is around 280-300.

Would you prefer moreaxe stun because it ads 250 magic dmg ? The fact is that pesti got 1 of best stuns in the game. Great splash radius and 2,5 second (?!?!?!?!?) stun. Thats way more imporant than a magic/physical dmg aspect

Another major issue with Pestilence is the purge-ability and disjoint-ability of the ultimate. Invisible-reliant heroes like Magmus (W), Valkyrie (E), Fayde (R), Nomad (E) can simply disjoint the swarms by activating the skill mentioned in brackets with them before the swarms reach them. Secondly, other heroes that typically do get Shroud (say Arachna) can purge his ultimate off by simply pushing W.

There are tons of skills that can be disjointed and are much more pinfull for caster, check gauntlet/plague rider. The fact is that pesti ult, shouldnt be considered as an ultimate. It got very low cooldown, its power sure, can be great but i would say its nothing anywhere near lets say tempest/bomb/pyro/w-e heavy nuke ultimate. + Would you want to waste a magmus stun or a valk leap just to avoid pesti ult when in a second you can get cought by pk/enemy team.

What say you?

I say you got some problem with farming on a heroes that arent instant gibbing creep wave in a 1 second

In my oppinion pestilence is exactly in the same place as madman is. Both are incredibly strong heroes, bouth can carry and gank extremly well, and both are considered by a lot of people as a bit underpowered only because of the fact that they arent picke in competitive or even pub games. The fact is that both pesti and madman could outcarry a valk or cd and at the same time have bigger impact on early/mid the only prob is that competitive players forgot bout them.

Not sure if its only my oppinion but HoN competitive sceen is a bit *****-like. They continue to pick only those heroes which were checked during many trounament games and are well known. They are running away from trying anything new unless smb will try them first with a great success. Look how long glad/panda/parasite/midas/new fa/maliken/madman had to wait till people noticed how strong of a heroes they are. After MSI tryed them everyone was like OMFG THAT POWER !? and as it always is, after some time heroes just get forgotten again. Most of heroes mentioned by me stopped being used just like that, without any nerfes, big changes anything. Just got forgotten, farewall panda - ultimate fun/strenght/watch comp hero ;(((((

LEAVE PESTI ALONE.

LEAVE HIM ALONE I SAY !

[dandylion]

Personally of the mind that Pesti is just fine. He's always an asset to the team, and still beats the pants off of a Moraxus pick. I don't put him in the same class as Kraken/Cthulu as he plays very differently. His AOE stun still has one of the shortest cooldowns in the game compared to others.

[lolb0t]

with a nerf to kongor, huge nerf to pesti.

i feel the stun damage should be liften to 260, and i still do not get the magic damage on top of chance to stun opponent for 1 second. make the hero physical a chance of 70 physical instead of magic damage for the passive ? or make the stun fully physical, since it does so little damage

or make it proc like chronos, random chance to proc, then guaranteed proc on 5th hit at level 4. would make it worth picking it up at all.

[[NU]Tomate]

Pestilence is UP compared to the new generation of heroes... I am very unsure as to what to do regarding this... very hard to say where S2 want to take this game.

Pestilence in the kind of hero I would put in the same box as Puppet Master, Pyromancer, Witch Slayer... and the list goes on.

They're all good heroes that can shine and be playable (not outrageously UP) but aren't considered the 'Best' options to pick.

[GregerMoek]

Fun thing, he's so good at what he does (reducing armor) that he still is a worthy pick in some situations. UP perhaps but not unviable at all.

[[02]Pestilence]

I'm not underpowered, as said earlier the new generation of heroes are just overpowered. Simply because a hero doesnt have a huge farming mechanism or a WTFLOLBBQ burst combo does not mean he is underpowered, overlooked yes but not underpowered.

Although i agree with the "panda got his weaknesses fixed why do i have +10% dmg taken".

[`rnz`]

I hate this " X Y hero is fine, he just doesn't fit in the current metagame..." comments. That means he is NOT viable anymore. Although on second thought buffing him just because we have massive amounts of retarded s2 hero sounds weird as well. Especially since he has been a huge dpsmonsteromagad still if he survives the first 25 minutes with a solid (250-300) gpm.
On third thought: buffing pest now would be a disaster. The "damage" part of the game is now centered on massive armor degeneration. Adding any kind of buff to pest (e.g. changing back his Gore to physical dmg) with his additional -16 armor would result in a terrible raping monster.

[Qweret]

I hate this " X Y hero is fine, he just doesn't fit in the current metagame..." comments. That means he is NOT viable anymore. Although on second thought buffing him just because we have massive amounts of retarded s2 hero sounds weird as well. Especially since he has been a huge dpsmonsteromagad still if he survives the first 25 minutes with a solid (250-300) gpm.
On third thought: buffing pest now would be a disaster. The "damage" part of the game is now centered on massive armor degeneration. Adding any kind of buff to pest (e.g. changing back his Gore to physical dmg) with his additional -16 armor would result in a terrible raping monster.

Heroes, that doesnt fit the current metagame, are heroes that still give you loads of other strategies and possibilities to create an effective lineup and surprise the enemy maybe.
In your opinion, if i understand your "not viable" right, more than 40 Heroes are not viable anymore. Removing them and have the pure mainstream-playstyle is for sure a solution, but for sure one of the worst. Buffing every Hero or rework him to fit the metagame results in 2 things:
1. We have over 90 similar Heroes
2. The metagame won't change anymore at all

So again, Pestilence is good, he is strong, he is not that typical easy burst-damage Hero. He is still viable for other strategies. Let him farm with 300gpm and he will destroy you.
He has a stun/slow/nuke
He has a movespeed buff for chasing and escaping
He has a passive bash, that lets him own even hardcarries in the lategame.
He has an ult, that forces to focus 1 target and kill it in a few seconds, further he counters invisible Heroes and Shroud/Genjuro.

I agree to fix his ult, so it doesn't disjoint anymore.


Further Pestilence is more of a counterpick to some Heroes. If those Heroes, that he counters, would be more in the spotlight of this meta, he would be a top pick.

[[STLI]Tupimus]

What really is the cause of Pestilence's problems is that his early laning is crap. He can't take control of the lane at 1; his stun only starts being decent as a stun at level 3. And honestly, what good is a strength melee that can't assume early control?

[Archernar]

Just do the minor tweak about his ult and he'll be fine. I agree that he's powerful and getting his W-dmg to 250 wouldn't make him a extreme killer. Plus it's the stun part that's important about his W, so to highten his dmg a little bit would help him.

[Anakha]

Accurate assessment, inaccurate premises and conclusions.

Pestilence was formerly the paragon of balance (though still not picked that often). The game has moved past him. This isn't a good thing, and neither is buffing Pestilence to match the current level of power creep.

Nerf other heroes back down to Pestilence's level. Note that this won't make the game less fun: playing an aggressive Pestilence is still one of the most fun experiences in this game, same as 2 years ago.

echo

[BaconOfHope]

Nerf Midas, Kraken, Ra, Zephyr, Monarch. Do not buff Pesti.

But do give him a better alt avatar.

[Fen__]

Tip: stop watching honcast and streams as only correct way that you can play hon.

Pesti is awesome hero, he was awesome before and bulwark + new shieldbreaker just made him stronger. He got nice agility gain, as a strenght hero he gains more from sh than most of other carrys. He can counter ton of enemy picks, do huge dmg, have great initiation, 520 movement speed and on top of that free bash. He is 1 of stronger heroes, its just that players are to dumb to use it since no one in comp games are picking him(or maybe because hes a bit boring?). Im pretty sure that with equal farm he can destroy sil+ra+fa and at the same time bring a lot of presence to the teamfighting aspect.

Btw think bout his synergy with a second carry/semi carry (fa/valk/sil) when he uses ulti.

Pesti is fine, its players who need to start thinking instead of acting like a copycats.

[Am]

Pesti is still an amazing hero. Excellent initiation, great mobility, incredibly tanky, still counters invis heroes (it's not like it's that simple to disjoint that low cooldown ult in a teamfight), and incredible CC (a slow AND a stun on one skill, with a very low cooldown?). He is fine the way he is.

[[E]Ahimtar]

make ult undisjointable (or just make the projectile really quick). and maybe reduce the bonus dmg on his flight. just a small buff.
competitive players should make better use of him, in lower brackets he is quite okay imo. and also he pwns <1400 as there is infinite number of scouts and nighthounds ^^

[PowerBro]

Pestilence suffers of powercreeping... There are just that many safer, easier, as powerful picks around, would they be RA, Zeph, Chutlu, Kraken, Drunken who all fill a similar role but with an easier time.

The 10% extra damage taken while using flight really hurts this hero. Removing it will be another powercreeping... but it feels like it is necessary due to the new heroes that are slightly more powerful than the previous 1s all the time.

[[BETA]Leebo]

If they would just uncap the bash he would instantly become a top pick in the game.

[Skyve]

Nerf Midas, Kraken, Ra, Zephyr, Monarch. Do not buff Pesti.

But do give him a better alt avatar.

No point in nerfing Monarch - she does in no way restrict or limit the use of Pestilence.

However other heroes that offer similar things that he does or promote unfavourable laning for him (he's best used in a dual lane - there's better heroes to take advantage of a trilane and much better solos due to his limited range) need some nerfs.
One thing you can't forget is that pestilence carries by being a strong anti-carry primarily (because it's hard for most carries to out dps him). With no need for real hardcarries there's also not too much need for heroes that counter them.

[Fen__]

You cant say that pesti is a good cary only in terms of being anticarry. This hero with sb got supports on 2 hits. Without ultimate its still 3-4 hits + you got bash and 520 movement speed. Hes great hero, got all advantages of mele heroes (bash,high hp, higher base dmg) and at the same time he got 520 movement speed to make sure he wont be kited and a great/versitile ultimate which makes him a complete 1v1 beast.

In my oppinion pesti is top tier carry with great teamfight presence and capable to fight even against sil or fa because of his flight and bash.

[[DRD]china]

DotA upped the -armor on his ultimate for a reason. +armor is easy to come by. thus, it's lackluster.

any other changes are probably unnecessary, considering the amount of tank this guy can get, while sacrificing very little in damage output/control.