Team Dependency

[foxmindedguy]

Concept wise, he isn't as toxic to the game as Valkyrie, DR, Bubbles, and any other ranged semi-carry with an escape mechanism and cc. I don't care how fast Ra can farm, when you give a hero an escape mechanism, long range for kiting, and cc, you ****ed up. Those heroes hard counter Ra, too. What is Ra gonna do when he can't get close enough to W you, but can't get far away enough to Q you? He's ****ed. Then he revives and you kill him again. "But wait, what if team fight? wat do skeloperch oh based god?" Ra is still dependant on his team, to an extent. Kill the team and Ra is useless.

Still not implying that Ra is good in any way, shape, or form. Horrible design concept, horrible execution.

While I agree that Valkyrie and Bubbles are incredibly amazing (saying they are OP is not wrong) at what they do, Doctor Repulsor still has down sides at least pre-level 6.

I mean his stun slows the **** out of him, if he doesn't ult away, he is basically a sitting duck. Perhaps giving other broken designed heroes a down-side would not be a bad idea. Otherwise remove this unnecessary shinnanigan from DR.

[ninja_goat]

Team independency is awesome, if you ask me.
Not having to rely on probably crappy random players is such a breeze. These versatile heroes are the most popular pubstompers for a reason.

If you ask me team independancy is for noobs and pros alike ... A Sh*ty player that feeds like no tommorow in every game can perform decently with an OP hero like valk because this girl has everything (2 support and escape skills at the same time ), one of the best stuns in the game (5 sec really ?) and a decent aoe nuke that can ensure early kills ...

On the other hand Pros can use such heroes like mirana/valk to save their retarded teamates from absolute defeat because as i said above the girl can do everything ...

Let's make one thing clear it's not only valk that is broken, there are a lot more heroes that use the same concept "i have a little bit of everything" but we just use her as a reference ... btw gemini doesn't belong in the same category anymore as someone mentioned above, the nerfs hit her hard.

[[TLP]BelowAverage]

Since some people are saying the opposite, I'd like to chime in and say that despite having no friends to join matchmaker with, the entire reason I play HoN is for team inter-dependency. To me, there's nothing more satisfying than working together to accomplish something.

As far as these "superhybrid" heroes go, I really feel like they detract from what I, personally, look for in the game, and I think the problem stems from new heroes being designed with the same range of standard abilities that cover all the bases: A stun/slow, an escape, a farming skill, and good survivability. I understand that these are like the meat and potatoes of a team buildup, but with them all stacked on single heroes we end up with a strange game that masquerades as a team game but plays as a deathmatch. I'd like to see more of heroes with one or maybe two of the above skills, then many more skills that do new and creative things to allow for new strategies and synergies to be developed. Skills like Empath's wall, auras, Rhapsody's Disco Inforno, entire heroes like Flux, and other other abilities that don't do the same basic set that show up over and over again.

This.
Bring the nerfbats, purge the protean heroes.

Then again, certain DotA heroes also pack said perks.
Still it looms large that many new heroes gain such versatility. Especially since the community seem to want more streamlined heroes.
I really like the S2 heroes thematically but with so much going on they could need some numbers tweaking at the least.
Yet this would also apply to
Dont touch mah magmus ;(

[Pineapple]

aaaaand why does no one add Ra to the balance forum.. a lot of people here complaining about him (i agree.. hes broken as ****) but noone starts an actual Ra-balance thread

[Hubaris]

aaaaand why does no one add Ra to the balance forum.. a lot of people here complaining about him (i agree.. hes broken as ****) but noone starts an actual Ra-balance thread

Its because every Ra thread ends wit the same conclusion.

He's stupid easy to play, not 'good' in competitive, and has really only 1 thing he needs to build for all of his needs.

His simplicity is whats problematic, hes hardly OP; just bloody annoying due to his risk-reward being so skewed.

[FabryPerot]

I honestly think they are releasing heroes just too quickly.

They should reduce the pace.

We have 100 heroes now. Do we really need this constant torrent of new heroes? I'm not saying they shouldn't release new heroes, just perhaps that they should slow it down a bit. Take some time to think more more about the direction of the game. Maybe release them in a more polished and balanced state.

[Anakha]

Money pays salaries and servers.

[foxmindedguy]

Money pays salaries and servers.

^ This!

Also Fabry, are you not excited about Gunblade (Fowling Shot)? See, new heroes are what's keeping you to revisit this game more frequently than not.

[[VGG]Glibber`]

More heros = more possible unbalance. I'm glad though, that S2 decided not to give blink to every other new hero.


And the thing about too versatile heros is nothing new either, sadly.


off topic, fox.. my 2 year old saw your bunny.. took me a while to find it though.. he was like *BUNNY, BUNNY*

[[0g]aeowulf]

I skipped most of page 4 (Sorry not interested in JRPGs), but I just want to chime in a bit.

I don't have a personal opinion on what they should doing moving forward in regards to team dependency. Its too complex for me to stew for 10 minutes and try to give a legitimate answer.

But!

Playing in beta/early retail, people had more chances to escape ganks and teamfights. Strength heroes had less versatility and damage output coupled with less survivability they do now. We didn't have as many counters to a well executed area damage team, etc.,

I think if you wanted to delve into 'what if' that would be a good period to think about.

[foxmindedguy]

More heros = more possible unbalance. I'm glad though, that S2 decided not to give blink to every other new hero.


And the thing about too versatile heros is nothing new either, sadly.


off topic, fox.. my 2 year old saw your bunny.. took me a while to find it though.. he was like *BUNNY, BUNNY*

Awww, how cute!

I wish HON could add more cute heroes into the game so children would love playing it. They need to be educated on the power of Kid Customer (McDonalds TM).

"Furball the Bunny" should be their next release

[[PSaP]Sephyx]

I think hon should have pures and hybrids alike, except the pures should be much more powerful in their roles and the hybrids weaker (which is not really the case with some heroes right now).

Nailed it, +1.
Also +1 for OP for creating this thread.
For once I really hope S2 does something with this..

[Pellikan]

The biggest problem i have is that no new heroes have things like short range, low base damage, short ranged spells ect. There is never a RISK with 600 range agi semi-carrys with stuns/shields/escape + high damage + good animation.

[Tyquan]

I completely agree with this post especially the line that says "Hell, even the game might become a little bland, but in the end when you could pick any hero in a line-up without dampening the odds of winning against the opponent, HON would really have accomplished a great feat.". Its so true! I mean honestly, some hero's are so team reliant while others can go gank, tank and support themselves it so unfair. Sometimes it seams so outrages that a well build team can be beaten by a team of "scum" hybrid heros.

If S2 maybe slowed down on hero development and started focusing on re-working old heros, making some hybrids more team orientated, maybe this game will return to being a TRUE real time strategy. Lets be honest, there's no strategy with some of the 1 button self reliant heros.... *cough* warden *cough* It makes me really mad to see people doing good as these heros and thinking they are actually somewhat good!

But all that said this is a great game, but i think S2 has gone a little crazy with a hero every 2 weeks, they seem to be letting the true feeling of real time strategy slowly fade from the game.

[[FT5]Anizer]

I think S2 is trying to make the game play "easier" than HoN in beta which was heavily team dependent. Now that there are many solo carries being released, I assume they're trying to help newbies (from league of legeds or not) cope with the game by playing a more dependent hero or if players have to carry a team of newbies.

[Doracahl]

I think hon should have pures and hybrids alike, except the pures should be much more powerful in their roles and the hybrids weaker (which is not really the case with some heroes right now).

This

[[RTB]Rebownd]

I think S2 is trying to make the game play "easier" than HoN in beta which was heavily team dependent. Now that there are many solo carries being released, I assume they're trying to help newbies (from league of legeds or not) cope with the game by playing a more dependent hero or if players have to carry a team of newbies.

Ive noticed alot of noobs going carry in game thinking they can carry the game because flint can kill someone from a long distance, or scout because he can be invis 80% of game time

[[B4WC]FurryTuna]

Ive noticed alot of noobs going carry in game thinking they can carry the game because flint can kill someone from a long distance, or scout because he can be invis 80% of game time

Flint and Scout are fine, IMHO. They need skill (positioning, knowing how far back to stand or when to go in etc) to play. Also, both Flint and Scout (especially Flint) depend heavily on their team. Flint needs allies that could keep the enemies from getting to him.

[[RTB]Rebownd]

Flint and Scout are fine, IMHO. They need skill (positioning, knowing how far back to stand or when to go in etc) to play. Also, both Flint and Scout (especially Flint) depend heavily on their team. Flint needs allies that could keep the enemies from getting to him.

I never mentioned anything that was wrong with any of the heroes. Everyhero in the game depends on the team heavily, there is no one hero who can take on a whole team by them selves "Unless there is a big level advantage". My point is that I have seen noobs in game play who tends to go carry heroes, the last 3-4 heroes have been ranged agility such as Draconis, Blitz, Artillery and Gunblade. My reply is for "Anizer". Anizers words were "Now that there are many solo carries being released, I assume they're trying to help newbies (from league of legeds or not) cope with the game by playing a more dependent hero or if players have to carry a team of newbies.". Again my point is the opposite to what "Anizer" had mentioned because I see more and more noobs picking carry heroes such as flint, scout, nh, swiftblade etc.

[Dr`Delicious]

This.
Bring the nerfbats, purge the protean heroes.

Then again, certain DotA heroes also pack said perks.
Still it looms large that many new heroes gain such versatility. Especially since the community seem to want more streamlined heroes.
I really like the S2 heroes thematically but with so much going on they could need some numbers tweaking at the least.
Yet this would also apply to
Dont touch mah magmus ;(

This, especially Valkyrie. People will get mad if they nerf Valkyrie, but imo it's a step in the right direction to stop the same heroes from showing up in each comp game and dominating any role in any match.