[2.5.9] Elder Parasite

[eszence]

Or make it so both ep and whispering helm can be built into symbol of rage.

Seems like a reasonable solution as it makes EP more usefull lategame (if upgraded) and it can be concidered more often as the attackmodifier of choice for heroes who would build a symbol lategame anyways.

[Jonguh]

you can get the +100 attackspeed while having shieldbreaker orb activated. 100 attackspeeds ain't so bad for 1900g..

yeah you get hurt faster, but you're not suppose to get hit as flint anyway.

[[umc]moshonkel]

The problem is that all proc items in this game wont be bought because of the proc. They will be bought for different reasons.

Charged hammer > never bought
SM > bought for pure dps and interrupt (nobody buys it because he wants it to proc)
Riffshards > bought for pure dps

[GregerMoek]

lol'd, saying noone buys it because he wants it to proc and then at the same time saying it's bought because of interrupt.

[Roefl]

How about the 15% extra damage taken will be applied at the end of the duration in non-lethal damage that way it could even be 20% again.

[[PonE]jp_zer0]

It's too damaging for the late game. The fact that it's an attack modifier on top of having a negatively scaling effect makes it so incredibly all-in.

Either increase the power or improve the scalability. The risk-reward ratio simply isn't there.

[PrestonLee]

you can get the +100 attackspeed while having shieldbreaker orb activated. 100 attackspeeds ain't so bad for 1900g..

yeah you get hurt faster, but you're not suppose to get hit as flint anyway.

I agreed with you until you mentioned Flint, then I couldn't tell if you were trolling or not lol..

really though, I think Elder is fine as is. it serves its purposes if used properly (nice cheap attack speed, extra movement speed, and a lifesteal steal source all in one); the main problem isn't really the item, it's the amount of stupid players using it incorrectly

[[BRO]Bohrain]

I know people are going to disagree with me, but I think the item is too pricy considering the additional scaling risk it brings. If the recipe cost was something as ridiculous as 300g it could be picked for the active effect alone, even if the player already had an attack modifier.

[Pellikan]

In the days of beta where is was 30% extra it was interesting...

But i think the item should just be removed, it brings nothing to the game.

[[CMAP]God`]

If Elder parasite is buffed it will be too strong.

[[YARG]Rosgath]

There are a number of problems with EP.

First, it's a mid-game item that takes an attack modifier. That means that since it can't be upgraded to something stronger late game hard carries generally speaking don't want it. If it had a good late game upgrade you'd probably see it picked up more, but I'm not really certain how much as most games don't last past 35 minutes anyway.

Second, it has a scaling drawback. This further deters people from picking it up, even though the drawback is far smaller than most people expect.

Third, Any hero who is strong mid-game and can benefit most from this is a strength hero(i.e. Maliken, Pestilence, Hammer, Kraken). Strength heroes will ALWAYS get more benefit out of Insanitarious, so they'd never get EP. You can kind of say that Myrm is an exception to this, but he's a hard support/disabler who'd be better off getting a more supporty item like tablet or Nomes.

I feel like the item itself isn't bad in it's current implementation, but it fills a niche that no hero currently can use it to fill without having better options. This would be really strong on a semi-carry who has % chance or countdown proc and isn't a strength hero.

[[WhiP]Uroefl]

How about the 15% extra damage taken will be applied at the end of the duration in non-lethal damage that way it could even be 20% again.

I still think this would be an improvement, kinda like gladiators ults effect.

[PrestonLee]

First, it's a mid-game item that takes an attack modifier.

this is not really accurate, it doesn't "take" an attack modifier slot from you, it "gives" you an attack modifier to use. The way I see it eldwr parasite is taken ALWAYS for the +100 attack speed and +20 movement speed bonus on activation. the lifesteal is just an added bonus, you don't actually have to use it and can resort to another attack mod if you want, just toggle between attack mods.

Not aiming this specifically at you, but you're taking elder parasite for the wrong reasons if you're buying it to afk-farm jungle with Chronos early on (this is unfortunately what most bad players do, rush an elder after regular marchers to go hit the jungle, extremely inefficient over getting steamboots first and lane farming). The reason elder is a decent/good pickup on Chronos is the +100 attack speed he gets to use in combination with his guaranteed bash proc. you do not grab elder on Chronos for a jungling tool, that's retarded, otherwise all sandwraith's and dark lady's etc would be picking it up too (not to give anyone ideas *cough*)

that is just one example of its uses. Some other examples where it has use is you want a cheap but effective attack speed boost to put out big damage pickups that don't give much attack speed (ex. Shieldbreaker+savage+rifts on a ranged carry). Yes, there are more effective pickups to gain attack speed like genjuro, charged hammer, wingbow, or daemonic, but keep in mind in terms of attack speed boost elder actually OUTCLASSES all of those pickups, and for MUCH cheaper, while it also gives you the lifesteal option on top of it (1900 gold). it also allows you to abuse multiple doombringer builds while still giving you a respectable amount of attack speed AND lifesteal to work with (say boots+genjuro+2 doombringers+token+elder). You can argue that if it gets that late then just getting Symbol is the best route to take, but again symbol is in the 6k gold range and does nothing for your attack speed; it really is all about cost-efficiency.

lastly, it is a very cost efficient farming tool IN COMBINATION with other farming tools, namely thunderclaw/charged hammer and runed axe; that +100 attack speed early on along with a lifesteal allows you to mow down creepwaves/stacks incredibly fast and again for cheap, and will boost your farming rate and dps pretty fast considering the time window in the game you grab it.

With that said, yes I agree these situations cater mostly toward pub-play as realistically relying on glass-cannon builds isn't a smart way to play carry, but I think elder parasite is fine as a pub item and doesn't need a buff to make it "cool" or more valued to pick up. it does a fine job in giving an extra attackspeed boost for cheap, and a lifesteal is a lifesteal.


tl;dr - elder parasite is a very cost-efficient way of grabbing very cheap attack speed, and although it has its drawbacks and caters more toward the pub pickup glass-cannon niche, I don't think there's anything wrong with having an item fulfill that niche. I feel elder parasite is fine the way it currently is and does not need any changes.

[bully_1337]

I would bring ElderParasite and thunderclaw together into one item:

- remove lifeleech
- you have still the 20% chance of casting chain lighting...
- you can activate that new item ... --> higher attackspeed --> higher potential dmg output
- better buildup for that item... maybe a soulscream ring would fit perfect...

[Antimodus]

I would bring ElderParasite and thunderclaw together into one item:

- remove lifeleech
- you have still the 20% chance of casting chain lighting...
- you can activate that new item ... --> higher attackspeed --> higher potential dmg output

may as well get Charged Hammer

[Corn22]

Early on this item is fine. Just time it right and you can do well to avoid being locked down after you turn it on. Its relatively cheap for a large increase in damage. Its later in the game where AoE damage and sheepsticks and whatnot become lethal that having this item is a death sentence. I wouldn't change the build up or the item itself, but I would make the item a build up to something else. The item it builds up to would basically be Elder Parasite + some stats that make you less squishy. I'm thinking elder parasite + Platemail (whatever the 1400 g armor item is called..) + 500 recipe.

[Malfunktion]

I actually like ep on chronos, it allows you to solo kongor with boots ep and a slayer at like lvl 10, which can turn the early advantage you may have had to an instant win.

[[TECH]Gorb]

You are also stuck with 900 HP.

[[ANHZ]RikiP]

i don't know why more people don't pick up elder parasite on hammerstorm after getting portal key and shrunken. you are a freaking monster. galvanize and the fact that youre spell immune completely negates the extra dmg. you are pathetic if you can't control elder parasite on a hammerstorm.

[Theburned]

The problem is that all proc items in this game wont be bought because of the proc. They will be bought for different reasons.

Charged hammer > never bought
SM > bought for pure dps and interrupt (nobody buys it because he wants it to proc)
Riffshards > bought for pure dps

Riftshards does damage because of the proc (which is scaling along with your dps)
SM is bought for dps and interrupt... because the proc basically adds 35 damage to every hit.
Charged hammer is not bought because AS is not that useful, and the proc is quite bad, the price of the items pretty much only covers extra proc, while a savage mace gets more as + a way better proc, with high proc chance.

SM is often bought over riftshards due to the interrupt and more secure procs, riftshards trumps SM hard when it comes to damage, (well at the point where you actually have the savage mace and later (188 damage if I recall correctly)) Though the true strike + proc makes it quite a bit better than riftshards.
Riftshards got a better build up, is cheaper, and delivers more dps. Still I see SM more often than riftshards, barely seeing riftshards at all because of savage mace... others might disagree, but if you would pick up riftshards over savage mace on every hero over riftshards (when there are no special circumstances) you are agreeing with me that savage mace is picked up because of the proc.

and well you also managed to state that people buy SM for interrupt, which they get when it ....... (yeah, you guessed it) PROCS!!!!!!!!