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What don't you get...melee's get kited, movespeed is great, the slow helps too. Frostburn + EP is 522 ms in most cases. And yes, you can toggle the orb effects, it's not that hard if you bind it to an easy to access key (mine is 'c'). EP + SB is lolpubstomp combo, since the SB debuff only needs to be re-applied every 5 seconds.Originally Posted by Ogrim
I actually cant think of a worse way to spend 4400g than on a Frostburn just for its stats. At least pretend you're going to build Geometer's or something.
Let me spell it out plain for you
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I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
I really don't think this item is too hard to fix at all...
This is my really simple proposal, it really doesn't need a massive buff in my opinion, the item is 1900 gold currently, It doesn't need to be godly like some of you are trying to make it. Its a cheap item lets not make it the next genjuro please.
Add 100 dollar to the recipe cost now the item costs 2,000
Change the life steal to a personal aura so that it does not count as an orb effect(similar to abyssal skull) but do not let it stack with abyssal skulls life steal aura.
There now you have a useful item that only costs 2,000 gold provides 17% lifesteal really good movement speed and attack speed aswell as the negative side of increased dmg taken(ITS A 2000g ITEM THIS IS OKAY FOR ITS BENEFITS); but does not prevent you from getting other orb effects
Only change in this idea ive had was to allow it to provide the lifesteal aura in a tiny radius to teammates (like abyssal skull).
What do you guys think?
Obviously you can turn it into :GeometersBane::FrostwolfsSkull: later, but the item is actually more stat efficient than you are letting on.
:CrushingClaws: =50/str
uckBoots: =
:Punchdagger: =
:GlovesOfTheSwift: =
16str * (
At 357ms +14% is 50ms, the same as :Marchers:, which brings our total to ~
Realistically, every single part you're looking for in said Frostburn (for stats) is able to be taken on other items (geometer's for said +ms and agi, notably) that also don't clash with your orb effect.
Hell, Geometer's even gives you a foolproof way to pre-emptively protect yourself from the EP debuff. Firebrand+blessed orb = near the price of a Frostburn, and you're skipping out on very minimal things in order to not have a rather silly clash. The nature of the orbs means toggling them isnt really feasible anyway.
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
I think you're forgetting, or intentionally not mentioning a key aspect:
Item Slot Efficiency.
A hero that especially comes to mind here is :zep:, who is just fine with staying on Frostburn, even when tiered out.
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Only if you only have on slot to play with, and at the time you're building frostburn you have say 3. Most hit point providing items are more cost effective than frostburn for that: icebrand is obviously twice as effective, helm is up there at icebrand cost, even beastheart by itself, sacstone, almost anything. For damage, anything that says 'damage' in its description is better; shrunken is more cost effective for strength, spellshards 1 is better even for non-int heroes for damage and 3 is still better for int, geobane is slightly better for agi before taking the illusions into account. For attack speed its actually competitive, except against things with real amounts of agi (dancing blade, wingbow etc) or base attack speed items (warpcleft).
If you have item slots, building a dedicated item for what you want from the list of stats on frostburn is better in almost every situation. Frostburn's advantage is that it splits into two of the best lategame items on ranged heroes. Its in no way one of the most cost effective items, except, perhaps, in the range of stats it provides.
As a thought experiment, consider the following:
More stats, less cost. Plus I have boots and a lot of incidental benefits (nb: insanitarius is on, but we have enough regen and are baller enough that we don't give crap). E: this build is not meant to be plausible on any hero, just to be better at everything that frostburn does.
Last edited by changlingbob; 03-07-2012 at 06:51 AM.
The problem with elder parasite is that it has no late game utility, the item becomes harmful to your hero by the end of the game. If you want to fix it I suggest changing the % damage modifier which scales with a moderate armor debuff.
Tbh frostburn is a good item but not because of stats. Like ankha stated geo bane is a lot better item in most of cases. Only frostburn advantage is that higher movement speed, although the couple of % can look very minimal its still crucial for many mele heroes + we got the blocking aspect. So no, i wouldnt buy frostburn just for stats over geo bane, yes i would take it on some mele because of higher movement speed buff and lack of block aspect that can come from the ilussions.
I still dont get it why people cant understand that buffing parasite would completly unbalance the item. For the price of 2k this item is more than fine, only EP drawback is the item slot problem. You cant rly make anything out of it and 2k item for a mid to late game carry is just not affordable in terms of losing item slot. Make it a part of bigger item and it would solve problem - if there is any.
I don't get the problem with it. it gives a ton of extra damage output, +100 as is essentially doubling your damage.The lifesteal component, enhanced by the attack speed, helps to offset the downside of it
imo, it's an item to be used when the risk of taking damage is relatively low anyway. Like chronos using his ult. most carries tend to be squishy in exchange for damage, and getting stunned is usually a death sentance anyway. making it moreso isn't that much of a downside compared to enhancing your killing power, possibly enough to kill threats before they can retaliate or escape.
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One of the main problems with this items is that the period where it shines is very short and after that it is counterproductive. If atleast it could be upgraded into symbol...
Atackspeed is useless versus damage in this game because often times you are not hitting every hit... which is why it was so popular on chronos... It is only good on heroes that A. Always hit you like verytime they atack or B. Stun u... the only heroes that do that atm..... Chronos... and then thats it.. Just chronos.
Bring it down a notch or up one like +/-500 gold and balance it accordingly. The problem is it doesn't compare with similar price tier items and it never will because of the unique drawback.
Imagine if it were 1500g (which does put it in with some clutch component items, but the only fully built items I can think of that it competes with in that range are the equally situational Void Talisman/Energizer) and 60as/+8% amp with 12% ls, it suddenly becomes interesting imo. Its easier to build than a midas, but comes with a drawback. It makes jungling earlier more viable, which adds a ton of new opportunities for both teams to capitalize on. The only negative is that making it more affordable might make certain heroes more derpy mcpubstomp than they already are.
Last edited by aeowulf; 03-12-2012 at 03:54 AM.
?
When wasn't elder parasite an orb....?
The item is seriously fine , one of the best in the game.If you think out of the box you can use it just like most items.
It wasn't an orb during closed beta. Neither were Symbol of Rage and Whispering Helm.
Or rather, orbs just weren't exclusive...
The effect it gives is fairly nice and i dont think the extra damage you take is even that much of a big deal, problem is its pretty bad as a attackmod and you cant turn it into anything.
Maybe the solution would be to cut down the life steal percentage a little and make it no longer an attack mod so it could be picked up along with sheildbreaker ect to make it seem like less of a dead end item.
Or make it so both ep and whispering helm can be built into symbol of rage.
Last edited by regin1; 03-19-2012 at 02:07 PM.
EP is death sentence. In order for you to even concider buying or using it you must check for following things:
1. Can I stay out of disables during it.
2. Can I get increased damage output with it (do we have enough disables)
3. Am I getting another orb effect.
My biggest turnoff point personally is that the item has crappy orb and most of the gold in it goes for the active which makes me glass cannon. In order for elder parasite to work (or more so the active to work) it item must be stripped from the orb and given something else, and damage taken increased to use something like mechanics behind gladiator's ult buff. So that I can use EP, get smashing some heads and flee when I start taking the extra damage over time.
no, MoM is a death sentence, EP is a minor inconvenience that people blow out of proportion completely. If you have a shrunken, odds are your life steal will make up for the measly +15% damage taken. If you're failing to autoattack with your shrunken and EP on, you did the timing wrong.
Lategame, one of the more expensive items (Frostburn, Geometer's, Daemonic, Charged) is obviously going to be better use of the slot than EP, but same thing can be said for other items in this price range, Nome's for instance.
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I'd say give it more build up. Shroud is picked up slightly more often now specifically because it can be built into Genjuro, which is actually a pretty nice damage item.
I'm kinda thinking that you'd actually want either a Slayer or a Sword of the High to ramp it up to a late game item. Bonus damage+ it's current activate would make it a really brutal item, but still high risk.
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