[2.5.9] Elder Parasite

[Hubaris]

Lol you're such a dick. EP is still a bad item and no one decent will ever pick it when they're behind. Theory craft all you want, but it's not picked for a reason.

Learn to discuss (read: not argue and be bitter) like an adult. So much ego in your head.

Theory crafting is the reason most things are found to either be too stronk or too weak. Looking at old helm as an example. You can see it as +6 Regen, +300 HP and 70% chance to block 40. You could say, Heart gives you more!

But looking at the numbers, the HP gained back throughout the fight, the blocking and the raw HP points, you can see it actually overshadows Heart in terms of HP/Gold.

Back to EP. I linked a nice piece of non anecdotal evidence which shows the items actual DPS and what it can do. The item is far from bad. Much like Charged Hammer it actually outputs a lot of damage for what you pay. EP Just doesn't grant you any health or anything to keep you alive, and dare I say, thats what balances it. You need to combine it with another item to maximize its usefulness.

100 Attack speed (a bit less than 2 Warpclefts 4200 gold) for 1900. I'd say its not atrocious in the right context. The item has a place in the game, as to where though, that needs to be found out.

[TRYTROUSERS]

didn't they make it so that the +dmg is dealt in a big chunk after the duration of the usage in dota? why not make it like a gamble, where if you kill during the duration you are penalized and if you don't you are? that won't fix the fact that life steal is a bad orb most of the time, but it will at least allow the item to be picked up for burst DPS.

[[sGty]Bloodrush]

The biggest problem I have with the item is that it offers no +damage.

Many of the heroes it is a decent pickup on early NEED more damage, take for example.

Besides the obvious "makes you more squishy" thing, I don't think it's that bad of an item, even 15% isn't nearly as high as most of you make it out to be. It's just very situational.

I think something like +10 or +15 damage on the item would help it a lot, and in turn maybe raise the +damage on Whispering Helm by +5.

*shrug*

Haven't bought it in a looooong time, but don't want it to become the new 'every hero every game' item.

[Repulsinozor]

Personally the only time that I ever really pick this up is on ramp, and then it's more for the +20 move speed. There is nothing quite like being ramp with elder+phase boots+stormspirit and being able to maintain a higher average move speed then war beast does (18 of 25 seconds or 72% of the time at max move speed as opposed to war beast's 16/40 or only 40% of the time). Plus since you usually end up getting a shrunken anyways you don't need to worry about being stunned that often.

But then again, 1500 bracket, no offense.
Ill tend to agree with the one that said earlier that there s no need to make this item godlike, it'd be very annoying.
The thing with EP is that he is easily controlled, and i am nearly certain you cannot balance EP for both 1800 and 1500 brackets without removing the essence of the item.
EP s pretty much balanced for 1300-1400 right now but if you boost it so it's balanced at higher mmr lvls it's gonna be OP for the low bracket and this low bracket is the majority of hon players so..

[[CMAP]God`]

I think its actually quite an underrated item on alot of heroes. Just that most ppl dont know how to use it effectively, dont always have it on, use it when it is safe. Its actually quite strong on chtulufant coupled with an insanitarius, like brized builds it. Ive tried it out and u become a ****ing train with these 2 items on the hero. Another hero i sometimes get it on is swiftblade, simply becouse his ultimate scales with attack speed (u can attack between slashes in your ultimate, when u are invulnerable), the more attackspeed the more invulnerable attacks. And when u have ulted u can spin and the +15% damage taken goes off, really underrated tbh.

Another thing to consider is that in dota this item still makes u take 30%+ dmg, thats double than what it is here in HoN.

I'd say leave it as it is, people just needs to start experimenting with the item and see what it can do (like brized).

[[BRO]Bohrain]

Another thing I'd like to direct attention to is the duration of the Crazed effect.
You rarely have the luxury of spending 12 seconds on autoattacking enemy heroes with no chance of being stunned and killed. The long duration is a good thing only if you are using the active effect to run away, which I don't find really useful since the item is meant to be used offensively.

[[FLQ]Streepe]

it has such a bad stereotype this item, but it can be insanely strong in certain situations and in the right hands.

I think there is no reason to change something that isnt broken, just because the majority of players cant use it correctly.

Or maybe we should buff Town Portal Scroll aswell because alot of players seem to not buy those either...

I kinda agree with this....
but not quite...

Bad players who use it and fail with it will either learn and fear using it, which is bad, or keep using it and keep failing, which is also bad.

The item isn't broken but it encourage bad gameplay.

I'll try to come up with a solution to each point raised:

1. I take extra damage, WTFOMG!!!11!
Even if the damage recieved is balanced many player will fail to see how much painful these extra damage can be. Thing is, the player will only realise that once he's being cced to death... Why not have him pay that life beforehand? EP could take a part of your life (either static or in %) on activation comparable to how much damage he would suffer. Kinda like blood chalice.
So instead of recieve "15% extra damage while activated" it would be "remove HP equivalent to 15% of your max HP on activation". Like I said it could also be static. Something like 200-300HP seems fine to me.

2. Orb effect is the weakest, I can't use better one !!
Not really a problem. If you build it for the orb maybe you didnt choose the right item. If you dont build it for the orb then you can toggle the orb effect you want. If you dont want to pay 900 gold for an orb you dont want and still get the effect you must remove the orb... but then EP has nothing to do with the item in the recipe.
Then we remove the item in the recipe. In that case the recipe has no item in it. That mean we must change the recipe. How? I have an idea but I'll write it in the next point.

3. It take place in inventory it shouldnt...
If you feel like you need more place in your inventory then maybe we could give you more. By combining with another item you use! My idea would be something like this:

elder parasite
ghost marcher + blood chalice + glove of the swift + hungry spirit + recipe

passive bonus
movement speed +70
damage +25
attack speed +15
lifesteal +17%
strength +5
intelligence +5

on activation
apply crazed on self for 12 secs

crazed
movement speed + ??
attack speed + 85
take 15% extra damage

notes:
-Point 1 is still doable with this new recipe. Just Change extra dam for HP sac.
-remove hungry spirit from the recipe if you agree with point 2
-numbers can be changed. Just my idea of it.
-recipe can be changed. just my idea of it.

[FistingTim3]

I would like to see this item have its recipe cost cut down to 500 g and its atk speed halved to +50. This would really make the item the dominant high risk early ganking item i think its meant to be. Even on casters, the benefits can make it worth it for early ganking, if they can get it earlier.

[hmontana]

The BIGGEST PROBLEM with this item is that its an orb. Nothing else. Its the worst orb in the game. Make the lifesteal non exclusive and decrease it to 10%. This item will be balanced and see alot of play

[Anakha]

I think its actually quite an underrated item on alot of heroes. Just that most ppl dont know how to use it effectively, dont always have it on, use it when it is safe. Its actually quite strong on chtulufant coupled with an insanitarius, like brized builds it. Ive tried it out and u become a ****ing train with these 2 items on the hero. Another hero i sometimes get it on is swiftblade, simply becouse his ultimate scales with attack speed (u can attack between slashes in your ultimate, when u are invulnerable), the more attackspeed the more invulnerable attacks. And when u have ulted u can spin and the +15% damage taken goes off, really underrated tbh.

Another thing to consider is that in dota this item still makes u take 30%+ dmg, thats double than what it is here in HoN.

I'd say leave it as it is, people just needs to start experimenting with the item and see what it can do (like brized).

this

[[ADON]FuzioN]

there are 2 simple ways to make this item better.

First lets look at other orb effects that are cheap in money to the same as elder parasite we got wich is alot better if we look at the cost of it in part of pros and cons.

Same goes for :WhisperingHelm:

What to do then?

Suggestion 1: Make it upgradable like shieldbreaker 3 ranks last rank every rank reduces damage taken, and gives it 4 to all stats.

each upgrade for elder parasite should cost like recipe.


Or suggestion 2: increase its cost :HungrySpirit::Broadsword::MightyBlade: and a recipe for 500 gold.
buffing the lifesteal a little maybe, then nerfing the attackspeed to half and adding additional effect, deals % damage of iether % health or missing health i guess maybe?

also giving it 250 health and 8 to all stats. recipie could be more costy depending on the stats of this orb, this would make us not see SB on every godamn hardcarry in a game more or less.

[[SBT]Necroth]

The problem with Elder Parasite is that it can be both a blessing and a curse.

Give us the ability to deactivate it (just like insanitarius with a small cooldown) and I promise you, it will be picked up A LOT more.

[GregerMoek]

But will it be balanced? I can promise you that Succubus would be picked up a lot more if her ultimate was global, or that Sacrificial Stone would be picked up a lot more if it provided invulnerability on use for one second per charge. Doesn't mean it would be balanced.

[[CMLK]IceHism]

My favorite suggestion would be bump up the extra damage taken and make it toggleable. That way, the people who know how to use it, can get the most out of it. while the people that are bad will only continue to fail. That's a pretty balanced item imo.

[[SBT]Necroth]

But will it be balanced? I can promise you that Succubus would be picked up a lot more if her ultimate was global, or that Sacrificial Stone would be picked up a lot more if it provided invulnerability on use for one second per charge. Doesn't mean it would be balanced.

Even though your extreme examples are a bit silly, I get your point and you are correct. Obviously the numbers need to be tweaked a tad. No question there.

Perhaps give us the ability to switch EP off once its activated (so it goes into the 25 second cooldown).



I just want to be able to switch this thing off whenever I want.

[korDen]

I'd want to see the effect of EP reduced to 5 seconds (the duration of SH when it's used up), on a shorter CD too. Either that or being able to deactivate it at will.

There is simply no way you can auto-attack someone for 12 seconds...

Also an upgrade akin to Assassin's Shroud would be nice. Something like a more offensive version of Symbol of Rage, with +60 damage on it or so.

[pechkin]

item is fine, it's just people who think that just because it's cheap, you need to buy it as first item.
Yes you can buy it early, but then you need to use it as a farm assisting tool like alchemist bones untill you can afford to engage the battle.
but if you want to make this item viable, since you already buffed AS and dmg taken bonus, you can try removing mana cost from it to make it endless forest farming tool

[Pineapple]

lets be honest.. EP is not even a pick-up for chronos anymore.. definitely needs some tweaking.. it used to be bought for the AS/MS bonus so maybe you could remove the lifesteal and buff the AS.. then items such as SB/frostburn/whispering and other attack-modifying items wouldnt be picked up instead of EP but maybe picked up with EP!

[pechkin]

lets be honest.. EP is not even a pick-up for chronos anymore.. definitely needs some tweaking.. it used to be bought for the AS/MS bonus so maybe you could remove the lifesteal and buff the AS.. then items such as SB/frostburn/whispering and other attack-modifying items wouldnt be picked up instead of EP but maybe picked up with EP!

lets be honest. EP has been only buffed. So if it was a pick-up for someone it could not become not a pick-up after BUFFS. It costs only 2k gold for 100!!!!!!!!!!!!!! attack speed, 20% movespeed and only 15% dmg increase. If there was no propaganda of how bad EP is mabe it would be picked up more often.

[Anakha]

It's been nothing but buffed....and clearly nothing else has changed in the game at all...