|
|
Thats the point though im trying to makeOriginally Posted by `rnz`
S2 nerfed this hero many many times because they don't want heroes like sand wraith to be viable. They want 30 minute games, not 30 minutes of farm.
Changing the hero to fit the meta seems silly to me cause they can just add a new s2 hero that will be better anyway.
And frankly, i don't like the fact that s2 has basically done away with as much as possible the hard carry meta game. Its simply too easy for gank teams to obliterate a hard carry. It took variety away from the game rather than adding too it.
If they want SW to fit into the meta....
Give him more damage early-mid game and less power super late game
Instead of just nerfing him and not helping him in other areas
Yes he needs a buff.
No, i dont want him to be again - if games lasts 40min enemy team can concede.
Making carrys who can destroy whole team if game last long enough is bad in my oppinion because turtling is way easier than ganking and keeping presure. If you get a heavy gank/nuke lineup without any good mid to late game carry, you need to perform exceptionally well. If you lose 1 or 2 teamfights its basically over.
On the other hand when your turtling, you can lose multiply tamfights untill enemys get near the racks and even than lost teamfight can bring no punishment many times couz 2 low hp nukers who survived can have a problem taking racks fast enough (due to low respawn timers and low autoattack dmg) and at the same time if smb from turtling team survives, there is a strong chance that he will defend the racks alone vs low hp nukers who wasted their big cooldown ultimates.
I haven't read all posts but I'm simply going to state my own thoughts on this and hope someone will read this.
I think Sand Wraith turned from my favourite hero into one of the trashiest heroes in the game.
Sand Wraith was (is) my favourite hero and used to be my most played. However many things went wrong with this hero, no big changes but it's the changes of HoN that made this hero lose it's use.
His first skill has been without a doubt been buffed. Looking back on how it used to be it's now much better, normally you would be able to throw it once every few minutes (160 mana cost ftw) and be utterly useless in laning phase. Now you can throw 3 or more over a period of minutes. Definitely better but still lacks in comparison to many other skills in the game. And because of all the escape mechanisms and stuns that are in the current HoN he can hardly kill anyone with it.
On to his second skill. I always found this skill a so so. It had a nice effect but you'd always get it after maxing your first and third skill meaning you'd get it only later where the damage is already starting to decline in comparison. Also being alone with other heroes gets harder as you go on in the game. And with only your first skill to slow down targets this skill is hardly of use and only gives an edge but nothing major. You could max this in laning phase over the 3rd skill but that would leave you even more vulnerable than you already are. There's nothing WRONG with this skills but there's nothing really GOOD about it either. Really a ''mehhh'' kind of skill.
Dissipate, the tank skill. This skill never seemed to do much for players but is really the skill that makes Sand Wraith what he is, a carry that is actually HARD to take down, instead of squishy squishy. This skill got nerfed badly. The shield got lower, the range in which it dealt back the damage is lower and it's magic dmg...
On to THE skill for Sand Wraith and what really sets him apart from other heroes, Mirage. This skill has so many potential and is reduced to nothing. Typical usage of this skill was to initiate a teamfight (stop pk's from going of), to pick off low hp targets, to escape (only as a last resort, if you get ganked by 4 you can ult and go to the 5th enemy whom is hopefully somewhere else and won't cause you any harm, really a dice roll), and lastly: to get into a teamfight quickly.
The ult used to give you so much. Not only causing chaos but it would melt the true supports in the late game when sw would have his items. The orb were removed from the mirages wwwaaaaaaayyy back, I can't even recall how long ago that was.... The biggest nerf to the ulti in my eyes however, is the loss of ability to gain an assist if he ulted into a teamfight. He has no other means to get an assist other than his first skill.
The ult has in short been reduced to nothing more than an initiation tool and to get across the map in a flash (when he teleports the illusions disappear meaning that the ''initiation of chaos'' is gone too and he will get targeted very rapidly if your team is even half a second too late to respond).
All in all, Sand Wraith has been turned into a single target hero instead of an aoe hero. He's more an arachna (single target oriënted) than he is a zephyr (for example). The thing that is wrong with this is that he can't do that. His slow does nothing for him because if the target is not alone he will almost surely be unable to pursue en even if the target is alone it is the question if he can kill it because everyone seems to have something to deal with him.
What's more, Sand Wraith used to be a hero that could be built differently. Mock was core but you could go a different build too. Now, you HAVE to get Mock of Brilliance to do damage to the other team. It increases the damage you do and the teamfight presence you have but you need to farm a LOT for this. Because he's no magebane with blink or madman with a stalk he needs a HotbL to get that early tankiness (dissipate alone doesn't cut it anymore). So, you have your marchers, hotbl and you need that mock. If you have insane farm you can get it early around the 25 min mark but in most cases it will take you a good 5 to 10 more minutes to get it. Then what? You got mock what do? You build him with a frostburn, is that a good idea? Yes, he's a carry, no it doesn't proc on his ults, f*ck....
I played Sand Wraith a little while back and although it was just a fun-fun game it made me realize what Sand Wraith had been reduced to. People already didn't take too kindly to Sand Wraith pickers because he needs to rice for a very very long time. But even after his mock he's not done yet and the mock helps him in no way to get assists or the things he really needs (it's only damage, no stat gains or orb effect).
Sand Wraith is a hero that I won't play unless there is no other choice, you're better off picking Andromeda to carry for you.
Now that that's off my chest let's see what we can do to make him better (ranting is nice but it doesn't help the problem).
His first skill is good, it's a typical trademark Sand Wraith ability and does it's job even though a bit lacking in comparison to other heroes.
The second skill has always been a mehh skill for me. It might be an option to change this skill into something more useful that synchronizes well with his ultimate. It might be a passive skill like flint his mini stun, gemini's double hit, hammerstorm's aura or something of the like. This skill is in my opinion a twist to the typical crit proc chance that madman and swiftblade have. But instead of a % to crit it's a static dmg that will only work if it's away from allies (in teamfights this skill backfires just like balphagore his silence backfires for his ultimate). It has its uses but not ground breaking or helping his cause.
His third skill can be removed. I'd rather give a hero a good shield or no shield at all and what this is, is nothing. Personal opinion but the things this skill should do aren't coming out. Either revert it back to the original true damage OR range (both would probably be too much, it's very hard to balance), or change the skill. Most melee carries are pretty squishy and sand wraith is not really the tank he was neither is he the squishy dmg dealer that other heroes are. A possible change could be an aura just like mock or chtulu his slow but the catch is that it stacks (sync with his ulti) giving him more teamfight presence. Just an idea, might edit something in later.
Lastly his ultimate. This skill is trademark, bread and butter, it's everything to Sand Wraith and it's useless except for getting into the fight. There are a few things that can be done to this skill. Make orb effect apply to this skill again. Draconis can hit 5 heroes at once at max ult level, FWS still splits, why would it be bad for Sand Wraith to be able to apply FWS to all heroes? (Flux can do this with his ult as well). You could also choose to give him assists for his ulti again. It was OP indeed but if he has items on him and the images deal a % of that damage then if sand wraith would have SOME farm (for example the typical sword of the high) then the mirages should be able to do enough damage to grant him the assist (sw has no other farming skills so assists are really nice on him). Third you could choose to make the mirages stay alive even after you swap yourself into a teamfight. This does not grant him bonuses for solo heroes (because the mirage will still have it's place taken) but it would still give sand wraith his chaotic initiation tool which I loved on him ('' ok be careful for an initiation, hag will jump in and.. JFEKLWJKLJFWEA SAND WRAITH GET BACK!'').
And I'm out of fuel. No really if you read all of this then congratulations, you're reading skill went up with +2 points.
There might be mistakes in the above and I really cba to search up if everything I typed is true or not. That is for you to do. If it's not right then just ignore it. I just typed what I thought and I haven't played SW after the nerf/buff really anyway (once I think, maybe twice....)
I just hope that someone can come up with a few good ideas to make Sand Wraith viable again. He is a carry with great potential but he needs to long to be able to do anything and even when he gets his items it's always the same thing and perhaps the biggest problem is: this hero is unrewarding to play. You farm for a long time, you leave your team to fend for themself. You come in with your ulti if there is a sure kill in it for you. You are pretty boring in teamfights because you're nowhere near the threat you used to be.
So yeah.... That's it I guess?
Check out my hero design, The Condra:
http://dream.heroesofnewerth.com/her...t/The%20Condra
Rate it and please leave feedback ty
inb4 people says "He was your favourite because he was 100% win after 40min"
I like SW too, and he still can apply FWS to the whole team, but that's the case for every global single target spell. I myself would just want half of all the nerfs he's gotten reverted, although he perhaps isn't as bad as people make him out to be, he's still pretty bad when it comes to both need of levels and farm to become effective.
Actually I think his third skill is most shitty early on, one point in it will be enough to break pots and pull camps with Blood Chalise. The 20% damage reduction when you've got 800HP isn't all that much. Your ultimate will actually do some damage even at level 8 with the second skill maxed.
Sure, sometimes it's good to max the third skill first, but I'd only really do it if I was jungling.
Stats are like women in bikinis, they are interesting to look at however they don't show you everything.
Really hope Sand Wraith gets some love, but with S2 wanting less turtle type matches we won't see him be a 40 minute win again.
He's incredibly weak. It would be nice to see him become a flavorful mid-late carry through buffs to Deserted (it shuts off with anything nearby...anything) and perhaps see his ult become more than just a global teleport.
So. SO. SOOOOOO. Let's look at what my bro Sand Wraith is based on. He's based on Spectre, one of the greatest hard carries in Dota!
Was their a problem with hard carries in Dota? They take **** **** TON'S of farm and are only effective in the end game. 40 Minute Ricing doesn't really spell a hero as Unbalanced. Spectre/Sand Wraith is a hard carry. Let them farm, you deserve to be **** on. Deny them the farm, they're garbage-a-lage-a-montage-in-the-garage-with-fermage (pronounce all with French accent).
Spectre is the un-nerfed, lovable Sand Wraith. In a game which is more competitive, and has been competitive for a long time (Dota), there is no problem with him. So I definitely agree to reverse nerfs.
200 vote weak that's a 77%, Have never seen such an agreement within the balance forum.
An incorrect agreement.200 vote weak that's a 77%, Have never seen such an agreement within the balance forum.
Has a rubber duck named "Mr. Quackers."
Rudra || Plaguebringer || Bastion || Castor/Pollux || Arcane Assassin || Smoke
Blog yo
Didn't Khezu drop d4 b0mb on a recent scrim/match with him? I remember watching a Sand Wraith game in the past few days somewhere and it was entertaining.
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
is harkon viable on sw?
SW build
Steam Boots-Vanguard-Radiance-Diffusal Blade-Skadi-Butterfly/Heart of Tarasque
He needs this much farm to be effective. Derp gaiz. Needs buff <.<
The elephant in the corner?
16 starting int with 1.9 growth. that's a total of 63,5 int +35 from harkon summing up to 98.+20 from stat ability 118.
1534 mana. Mirage +q takes up 270 that leaves iwth barely 1250 mana. ~14 hits. Guess not.
I have not read all the posts, but these are my cents.
i have played SW in about 4-5 games and have netted decent success in those. For me the best part about wraith is that you can freefarm nonstop and still be active (initiate or dive into) in teamfights through Mirage. That combined with all the mechanics built into Deserts Curse has meant that i have basically had fun all game (at least from the 10 minute mark) and that i dont really understand what the fuss is about.
That being said - do NOT rework SW into a S2 style ganker. The hardcarry strategy should remain viable and SW is the one i believe is the most fun to play since he still can help with teamfights despite farming the woods (unlike for example Wildsoul, wich in my experince only farms and then emerges in minute 50 to do the roflcopter and win)
Illusions carry Harkon's orb and use their own mana pool when attacking with it.
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
just make diffusal's on hit effect work on illusions again...
problem solved case closed...
i mean, cmon s2 there are still other hard carries that have stronger late atm and also have the ability to jungle
-____-
Last edited by ninja_goat; 03-12-2012 at 08:02 PM.
He had 20 % dmg reduction returned as true damage in 1000 AoE. Thats the only skill which scales trough the match with enemy spell/attack damage (while Sand Wraith can survive),and was also applied to illusions. 45 true damage when there are no allies is a big damage boost at early game. But is useless in example against a farmed devourer or pred or another str carry -it is supposed that agi carries can defeat str carries-.
Yesterday i played a game using SW. At the end, we were a farmed war beast, and me, with a farmed sand wraith (we had a devourer on team, and the other 2 guys left). The other team had a feeded Pandamonium. And a farmed flint - remaining 3 heros from that team were not good-. We lost, panda and flint killed us at the end. those 2 did the trick.
Maybe adding an active skill would help, something like "press E to spam 2 illusions. Each one takes 300 % damage and deals 25% of attack damage. Applies Desserted" Would help a lot. It sinergizes better with his E passive.
Also, those illusions could have a timer which starts to run out of time since illusions left the deserts curse sand path, 10 or 12 seconds. In a game, if you go for geometers bane, you cant get the mock so fast.
Maybe it looks like its to give a hero a expensive free item, but then we can compare him with other hard carries. Magebane have a great att speed, that escales well with his mana combustion extra damage, and can blink each 6 seconds to finish off enemies. Thats like a free nullfire + a portal key. I could keep a list about other heroes adventages over sand wraith.
In my opinion, SW is now too weak, so team who pick him has 95% chance to loose because for about 30-40 mins its 4v5. First skill: 200 magic damage and little slow/bonus speed, but good escape mechanism. +45 true damage is good. Reduction only 16% ok but make dissipate to deal at leats true damage or increase damage reduction back to 20%. If he dies 2 times game is lost. Yes, he is hard carry, but scout/MK/Chronos and more can outfarm him easily. He starts being usefull when he got at least 7k golds for some items.
My suggestion is:
-increase damage with desert curse to 60/120/180/240 magic damage
-damage reduction with dissipate to 5/10/15/20%
-Mirage duration to 4/5/6 sec
-Base damage from 46-50 to 49-53
First spellcaster, who excels at lategame:
http://dream.heroesofnewerth.com/hero/konva/Nethermancer%20v2/
Rescale deserted to 15/20/25/30 true damage. Works on creeps and heroes at all time. Does not benefit from hatchet (with hatchet at level 1, does NOT become 20 true damage), works on his ultimate's illusions.
This fixes quite a bit of SW, it increases its last hitting potential exponentially (15 true damage at level 1 is huge), scales with ATK speed late game, does not benefit or any orb effects...
I feel like this still increases her potential late game compared to the actual 1, is a 1 point wonder leaving option of going deserted maxed first or dissipate with 1 point in it... and so on.
I would also give her back the fact that the ultimate gets her assist gold. Necessary dynamic to allow her to farm and be potentially viable late game.
Is a SW with Mock + FWS + Treads + HotBL still viable? Completely but this never happens in 30 minutes and you will have to deal with that armadon from minute 15 that has his Helm + plated + mystic and is hard as hell to kill.
Posting Permissions
