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u wanna waken his early more and strenghten his lategame by such a huge margin. i mean i love sw. this would turn him into the 40 minute + monster in a worse way he ever was. i agree hes to weak now, but 30% reduction will be way too much.
Thunderbringer's ult is a static amount on paper but not true at all in practice. His ult damage would be a reach a set point after he has achieved spellshards 3, ult stick, and refresher. In a real game he will never finish all these items. So in a way, he continuosly augments his ult with acquisition of items similarly to sandwraith...albeit on a much lesser scale.Originally Posted by Cyber_Kun
Short article about how underpowered Sand Wraith is right now, especially in higher-tier play.
Here
Mirage duration nerf hurt him 100x more, as well as modifiers not extending to Mirage. With imba FWS as well as the slow on activation, uptime on its damage with Deserted was phenomenal for the 7sec they were alive, as well as being a 10sec 30% superior magic slow.
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
should make w/e into one skill and then make the new skill he will get into a take cover there he can move working 1 1.5 2 2.5 sec and then redo Deserted 2 making 20-25-35-55 damage with 1/3 charges "only" works on heroes like chronos stun if you did that sw could both be ganker / carry
and ofc redo orbs on sw ulti make diffu fws shieldbreaker work on sw ulti but remove aura's from working so mock is not the item sw need
and the hero would be perfect
reason for cover is becuz sw cant really move into fights without getting stunned and i still want mock 2 be usefull so there is not one corebuild and it can make him able 2 dodge stuns from ranged ect
Last edited by Nimo1; 02-19-2012 at 03:54 PM.
Could you rewrite that with actually using more than one sentence per paragraph? I mean, so it's actually readable?
If you buff Sand Wraith, tri-lanes may appear again frequently. For better or fow worse.
Enjoyed trilanes far more than the current to be honest.
Stats are like women in bikinis, they are interesting to look at however they don't show you everything.
Playing SW requires a different mindset. With HON becoming an increasingly fast-paced game, Sand Wraith can't afford to sit around being useless until late game.
I've been experimenting with maxing Deserted first and getting Ghost Marchers. While it's a far cry from the "tanky" SW builds of the past, it is quite effective at netting early kills. You'll be moving quickly with GM activated + Desert's Curse and they're pretty slow, plus you hit like a truck if they're alone.
I feel that this is the direction SW needs to be taken in order to function.
That said, there are some archaic design flaws that MUST be addressed in order for SW to see competitive play.
1) Deserted should just deal 45 true damage per attack. Period. I realize this ruins the flavor of the ability, but balancing the game > flavoring the ability. The fact that one ability is countered by standing next to a creep or being in a team fight is absurd, considering today's heroes and power creep.
2) The ultimate duration should go from 4/4.5/5 to 4/5/6.
3) Dissipate should be reverted to 20% reflection at max rank, however it should still deal regular magic damage.
If these things were done, SW would be a competitive viable hero. You start him aggressively itemized (GM --> Geos or Radiance) and finish him tanky (FWS).
Been doing this for ages, you're right. The protection is just too bad on Dissipate at the moment to skill early, in terms of EHP increase, it's not effective, so you might as well make use of a decent steroid to single out people.
It's still far from working reliably, I also think they should rework Deserted so the damage is more reliable, like not making creeps count towards it, only heroes.
Why not make it so Deserted still works when creeps are in the area? Would make his clean up and early presence more notable if people didn't have to just move in a lane to negate a whole ability.
Nvm person above me got it right
I'll never forget what I felt that day...
I, want to be a Hero of Justice!
The best part about the Sand Wraith nerfs is that s2 gutted him severely across the board, so they're free to buff him in nearly any area that they like, to get a hero with a playstyle that they want exactly. Foresight.
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
his dispersion deals less damage than some heroes can passively regen for.
I really disagree with the idea that the concept is broken and that its impossible to balance sw.
the illusion thing was what really carried SW.but the procs are gone and duration is gone from 7 seconds to 3. and his dispersion AOE is a joke and is less aoe damage than RA in most cases. he has terrible stat gains.
There is no risk at all to buffing him. or at least giving him better dispersion numbers
give him 22% magic dispersion or 16% true damage and he would still be bottom tier, but he needs it. the ult and illusion changes the way the are now will prevent SW from ever getting picked again. so at least fix the rest of the character.
Last edited by Bullship; 02-19-2012 at 09:46 PM.
I just watched the video with Famine and I got an idea about what might be done to brush up Sand wraith a bit :P
The whole lore aboutis based on deserts and hallucinations and what else might be related to sand and I'd say his special "thing" is beating his foes using some kind of illusionary methods. So, I thought that wouldn't it be great if you'd replace one of his passives (preferable deserted imo) with a target/target ground activation skill that sends out one special illusion (much like nomad altought without the damage or invisibility) that can take 100 % of the damage you can take (at lvl 4 at least) and it can only deal damage to those foolish enough to attack it (like dissipate but directed to the attacker only) and doesn't transfer any effects from items (other illusions from ult/runes etc. still do however). You could either select a target and the illusion spawns from your position and pursues your target (attack animation running but no damage), or you could just target the ground to make it go there (for fleeing/juking/bait).
It would open up a lot of new gameplay with
One reason why I think this might work is that the main thing you look for when determining if a hero actually is an illusion is how fast it's dropping (unless it's otherwise obvious). Also, the chaos it would bring with your ult + geomancers etc. would be well worth the missing damage from deserted :P
My mindset about the scaling of the skill would be like:
* Damage the illusion can take is scaling with each level up to 100 % (at lvl 4) of that which you can take
* The damage it deal to the attacker is the same as for dissipate
* Possibly add a second charge at lvl 4 or 3 so he can send out two illus
* Increase/decrease mana cost?
Now since I can't try it out I can only speculate about the balancing but I don't think it would be either too OP or making him in a worse condition than he is in now :P
TLDR: ...just read it
"H89SAHGF789HGI890u_y#4075864387 890D YA78 36458907589- 7UT894JUHGF89HGF" - a summary by [S2]Idejder
the skill would be far to weak to support sands carry role. granted deserted isn't the best skill it still gives him some option of sustained dps if he can get someone alone. as much as I would like to see sand rely more on his illusion powers he would need a total rework to do so.
his stats would need a definate boost (he would have to be one of those 3.0 agils stat gain guys). his dissipate would have to be turned into something more offensive like base damage aura or steroid or maybe a +damage for each illusion controlled. his ult would also have to be tweaked to fit the theme.
or they could make it the illusion spawned some type of super illusion that adopts all attack mods and proc items sw has but we all know that won't ever happen.
the single decoy as it is guts any offensive edge sand could develop and makes him nothing more then maybe a tanky support like accursed.
Do you want to live forever?
The world is not enough.
" I was given powers to save the world but in the end I found myself at its center. I became the beast."
So what if he keeps the deserted passive ability too, just mend it with the dissipate skill slot? Or would that be too much? If so they could maybe lower the damage or have it increased when one of those illusions is around maybe. This way he will only be buffed and maybe that's what he needs
And if such stat boosts would be needed then they would be needed now too, because deserted is completely inactive in team fights anyway so that would make him a carry only when he catches someone in woods or chasing someone :P
Last edited by Janen; 02-21-2012 at 03:19 PM.
"H89SAHGF789HGI890u_y#4075864387 890D YA78 36458907589- 7UT894JUHGF89HGF" - a summary by [S2]Idejder
Although i don't want to admit it, because i love underplayed heroes, SW is the worse hero in the game atm ... i've been experimenting with him for quite sometime and i can honestly say that there are still builds that can make him a nightmare late game but in reality this is just a mere illusion !
The reason why this happens is simple, they overnerfed him in so many different ways (most recent was the hotbl change i think) that he doesn't have the potential to afford such item builds anymore, except if you gain some lucky kills early game,you have a great support by your side so he can help you farm some basic items and your team can hold your oppents for 30 mins without your help... Let's be honest, this ain't gonna happen unless you are facing noobs...
His desserted skill needs a serious rework, it's so situational that sometimes i think i should lvl up his stats first .... sw is easily the worse hard carry in the game atm and he doesn't even carry that hard anymore ....
let's compare him with other hard carries:
chronos: he has way better passive in terms of gaining gold early game (yes this stun has given me a lot of early kills countless times), he synergizes great with a cheap farming tool alchemist's bones, a well executed ulti can be proved game changing even in the early-mid game where you lack the equipment to carry your team... + he carries way harder than SW!
dark lady: easier farming (this w helps a lot in last hitting early game, even in the most dangerous situations it gives you chances to gather gold)... she has some serious disables and she carries harder than wraith...
zephyr: no comment (it's like comparing day with night )
predator: easy, funny and strong (something sw will never become unless they buff him !
S2 has said they want to make matches shorter and more interesting, and so Sand Wraith shouldn't and probably won't be buffed back to the same role he had before where you'd hope the game go as long as possible. With the shorter cooldown on his ult, he has an interesting effect on games where he can participate in almost every gank that happens on the map, the only problem is once he gets there he's not good for much damage or cc or anything besides cleaning up kills.
His skills need a rework, and hopefully that will make him a good asset during ganks in the early-mid game.
Last edited by Lodurr; 02-26-2012 at 05:14 AM.
From what i understand he works well in Dota still. All the talk of remakes seem silly to me. Hero has great theoretical synergy with his skills and at one point was great in his role...
Wondering why a hero is bad after not only the hero was nerfed multiple times, but the meta game was arguably changed in part due to this hero, seems a little silly. At the same time though, i don't see why a remake is warranted. At that point, just remove him or make a new hero all together (as s2 does constantly) and leave him be.
Because he is like lets say 3-4 times stronger than in hon (with numbers).
1) And the game is a LOT slower there, where spectre can afford spending the first 20 minutes totally useless.
2) SW's E is 16% while spec's is 22% (it also gained a good new mechanism), also still true dmg.
3) SW's W is 45 while Spec's 50.
4) Illus still 7 sec for Specre.
5) Orb effects still work on Spectre illus.....
+ items like Ring of Aqulia or w/e is it makes Spectre's life much more easier. So with that said yes, Spectre is still freaking nice and competitive pick at DotA2. Wonder why ._.
Last edited by `rnz`; 03-01-2012 at 04:19 PM.
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