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In my oppinion any buff to sw should be followed up with a nerf to his ultimate. SW problems is that hes almost unbalancable. If you buff him so that he will have a decent carry pottential than his ultiamate will become too strong. If his skills get weaken than he is instant trash hero. In my oppinion the orb effect and % nerfes should be reverted but change his ilusion to arachna spiderlike, 1-2-3 hits to kill ilussion, no matter the hp/dmg. This way the orb effect would be strong again making sw viable, at the same time we would eliminate situation of ilusions soloing whole enemy team while sw player is a noob who cant even rightclick on correct enemys + maybe forced him to make more dps items instead of pure tank build.
In average, SW already has a better winning percentage than 90% of all heroes. I Wonder how that is possible being such a trashy hero as everybody is saying.
Where did you find those numbers?Originally Posted by Sealwhopper
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/hero_use.php
Not really a good source for balance decisions.
"Friends. Those companions you speak of are only friends during those fun, yet unimportant times. When painful times come, they won't be your ally."
Disorganized players let games last longer than they need to--giving the team with Sand Wraith an easier win.
I think that this win % comes from the good old days when sand wraith was the sh!t... Since he sucks now and is never used, it will take a long time for him to drop back into the low %...
Sand Wraith was at some point in every game, winning over 60% of its games... now he's in 5 games a day, mostly AR / BP... meaning the other team might be stucked on a 5 support line up.
No, where does this 90% win come from? No matter how I fiddle with the hero usage page, it's not giving it to me.
Which is to say, you guys are making **** up and posting based on such bullshit.
^ you
and ^^^^^ you.
Can anyone even imagine SW in his current form in any serious competitive game? He's by far the most useless hero ATM ... seriously there is no argument about it. Only BH comes close to him.
pewpewstar - He meant that SW has a higher winning percentage than 90% of other heroes. He's sitting on a 53% win in pub games though, and the statistics gathered from pubgames is meaningless and it's stupid to cite them as an argument about balance.
Oh, that was me making a drunken ragepost. But yea, while pub stats are meaningless if any hero's win rate were 90% I'd be worried.
/hangover
gemini 41 % winrate, how valuable do u think are those statistics in regards to balance?
What make SW strong is his ultimate, he can practically farm anywhere and help the team to turn the tide..now imagine its 14 min into the game, bot lane got gank and madman just farming top. SW on the other hand can use his ult to help bot lane and turn the tide and even get kill or assist gold.
His slow is more than enough to chase because it last more than 10 second.. now tell me what hero have slow that last that long ?
SW ulti is a free port haste to team clash.. how is that weak ?
and his ult have a lot of uses, not to mention the short cool down.
Reworking him is a bad idea i went from 1400 - 1670 mmr and still going up from playing sand wraith. So i don't know why people think SW is under powered.
I prefer he stay like he is underpower, because if you buff him a little he will OP again.
So let him like he is right now or RMK his skills in a global ganker hero instead hard hard carry.
Playing:
1 - DOTA2 closedbeta(since 10-28) (serious business) ACTIVE 193 Wins 171 Losses
2 - HoN ACTIVE (serious business)
Buff his 2nd skill, too situational.
Maybe even just slightly..
To me Sand Wraith's ideal role would be as one of the strongest lategame heroes, but also as one of the easiest heroes to gank in the early game. As a hero he relies on getting solid early game farm, then using that farm to take over the mid-late game. Unlike most other hard carries in the game, he carries by being exceptionally tanky, which often makes him much better in a 5v5 situation, while other "DPS carries" will be better in 1v1 situations. That being said, Sand Wraith should have the overall best lategame, and the overall worst early-game. This is difficult to balance though because his dissipate makes him very tanky even in the early game.
I would recommend a change to dissipate so that it's weaker in the early-game, but scales to be stronger in the late-game.
Let dissipate reflect .4/.8/1.2/1.6% of Sand Wraith's current level. Since this might seem kind of confusing I'll give a couple examples of how this would work.
Level 1 Sand Wraith with level 1 dissipate would reflect .4% of incoming damage.
Level 7 Sand Wraith with level 4 dissipate would reflect 11.2% of incoming damage.
Level 10 Sand Wraith with level 4 dissipate would reflect 16% of incoming damage.
Level 25 Sand Wraith with level 4 dissipate would reflect 40% of incoming damage.
With this change Sand Wraith really does become the hardest carry in the game, but at the same time his laning is much weaker, and his early-midgame is slightly weaker. He will be easier to gank than before until he hits level 10.
Also to the people who seem to think that hard carries ruin the game and want every hero to be a ganker, imagine how boring that would be. Every hero should have a unique playstyle and role in the game. Tanky hard carries have a place in this game; they just have to be carefully balanced.
Numbers on that seems a bit off to the very least.
THe general idea about **** early, godlike late is something I support. But those numbers man are wicked sick.
I thought reverting some numbers back and give him forced synergy with spells for their special features to be good but yeah.
Stats are like women in bikinis, they are interesting to look at however they don't show you everything.
How is 1.6% of 25 = 40......................
1.6% of 25 = 0.4. That 0.4 is not a percent.
To turn that into a percent we must ---wait for the magic- DIVIDE by 100.
0.4 / 100 = 0.004
So you want sand to reflect 0.004% of the damage he takes at lvl 25?
I know exactly what you were trying to say and do.
"Dissipate reflects/reduces X percentage of damage suffered by Sandwraith. Let X equal 4/8/12/16% of Sandwraith's current level times 10" 16% of 250 = 40
That satisfies what you said you wanted the ability to do.
yeah sorry i phrased that badly, glad you understood.
Anyway im not sure about balancing the exact numbers but u get the idea i think. I know 40% sounds like a lot, but its the same amount as Drunken Master's ultimate. Maybe the actual damaging part of reflection would be a bit OP, but at the same time it can be countered by things like shrunken head and barrier idol. Even without those counters, I would argue that Drunken Master would usaully still put out more damage than a SW with 40% reflection, so I think it wouldn't be too unbalanced anyway.
Last edited by FistingTim3; 02-15-2012 at 04:23 PM.
DM's a horribly broken hero, so not really a good baseline to establish numbers off.
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Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
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But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
The idea has merit, tho 40% reflection would make SW simply insane. I'd say, reaching 30% at level 25 would be reasonable. The effect of reflection % is hyperbolic, there's a very large difference between 30% and 40% reflection.
30% at 25 would mean he gets his current 16% at level 13 or so, and 20% at 16.
Seems reasonable.
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