Couldn't agree with [IaF]Skyve and Herbert_West more, the goal of balance is to try and make everything as equally viable as possible.
Back to I had a thought regarding MC:
"Over the next 5 seconds, afflicted targets regain 100 health"
but depending on your level of DLP and the number of enemies around they might actually cancel each other out. At worst, the minimum damage for DLP is 10 damage per second and therefore counteracting half the heal damage if they are within the 300 unit range. At best, DLP is doing more than they are being healed for by a potential 30 damage per second.
So I wondered, what if the heal on MC was slowed to 100 hit points over 10 seconds, this way as long as they are in range of DLP, no matter how many units are nearby, they take 10 damage per second while being healed at the same rate, thus cancelling one another out.
The only problem I forsee with that is a lowering of synergy with TU, lasting only 10 seconds, it would be easy for TU to fall off before MC finishes healing them, but then again I could argue they shouldn't be alive at this point anyway...
Also does MC healing stack?
its duration is 5 seconds and the cooldown goes down to 4 seconds, creating a 1 second window where an enemy unit can be under the effects of MC twice, something I hadn't noticed before because of how close the times are... because if it does not this would make increasing the heal duration to 10 seconds even more effective in terms of repetitive casting on the same target, which I think would be a good idea for playing him this way
Analyzing level 4 MC damage.
5.5 MagicArmor (Base) (360*.75)-100 = 170 Damage
10.5 MagicArmor (Mystic Vestments) (360*0.624)-100 = 124,64 Damage
15.5 MagicArmor (Shamans Headdress) (360*0.518)-100 = 86,48 Damage
19.5 MagicArmor (Devourer with Shamans Headdress and level4 Cadaver Armor) (360*0.46)-100 = 65,6 Damage
30.5 MagicArmor (Magebane with Shamans Headdress and level4 Flash Buff) (360*0.355)-100 = 27,8 Damage
52.5 MagicArmor (Arachna with Shaman's Headdress, Harden Carapace and lvl4 Flash buff from Magebane) (360*0.24)- 100 = 13,6 Health gained
Even without any magic resistance items, this nuke is highly ineffective for it's cost. Buff please.
Oh yes almost forgot. Chipper takes a dump on his face because he gets healed for having this cast on him while under the effects of Focus buffer.
Last edited by Doomhammar; 04-06-2012 at 08:13 PM.
^ calculations by [STLI]Doomhammar make me think that MC should in fact only give back 50 health over 5 seconds, at all levels.
This achieves 2 things in particular:
- firstly the effective damage on someone who gets healed isn't laughing at how pitiful your results are (thought it never feels weak against someone with only base magic armor, but then they always run away when they get hit);
- secondly the targets will only be receiving 10 health per second, so if you can get them in range of DLP, no matter how many units are nearby, the minimum damage of DLP (10 True damage per second) will cancel out the heal of MC and thus increasing his presence in team fights.
Despite the draw backs of having a high mana cost, short range, 1 second delay and healing the target afterward, I thought it was supposed to be worthwhile if you could actually use it every 4 seconds like the skill allows, but the numbers above imply that the heal is quite potent indeed, and TU has quite a long cooldown...
So its only worth spamming every 4 seconds if you can at least cancel out the heal with DLP. MC heals the targets for 100 health over 5 seconds, this means 20 Health per second, DLP deals 20/30/40/50 True damage per second split evenly between all targets in range (300 units).
Another one of the large problems with mors is that you have to stop, aim and cast it. Salforis is slow (290 MS) with no stuns, so he relies on lifetap to chase. If he stops to cast a mors, the hero might easily get away. I think making Mors an AoE centered on salforis, where any targets hit heal back 25% of damage taken (takes care of the stupid effect that magic armor has, where the target takes less and less damage but still heals the same amount) would greatly help salf.
I think his ult could use a slight buff as well. It would be nice if his ult gave negative casting speed to the target it was applied on. There arn't any casting speed debuffs, and it would at least make him more useful in teamfights, instead of being a watered down version of ra and zephyr.
Last edited by Isis; 02-22-2012 at 09:56 PM.
@Doomhammer You forgot Magebane with Flash + vestments (25.5 magic armor).
As to Salforis as a hero, I still think he's relatively balanced. I feel his aura should have a better minimum for the higher ranks and Mors is just bad (apart from finishing off a target or hitting an ulted enemy), but Life Tap is pretty good if properly built up and the ult works as a good deterrent, a finisher, and the buff after lasts quite a good amount of time. Everyone miscalculates its range.
Considering tdM just lost to a Demented/Nymphora/Ophelia/Astrolabe combo, I think seeing Salf in the near future is becoming more and more likely.
Forum Moderators are not S2 Games employees. My posts in no way represent the view of S2 Games or any of its staff.
Please use the report post function to have me review a post that you believe is breaking the Forum Rules.
Check the Sticky Threads for additional information on this sub-forum and the Announcement Threads for more information about Heroes of Newerth as a whole!
I admit I'm also not impressed with his Mors Certissima skill, even though I think he's an interesting hero overall.
This Q is just another aoe nuke with a little (regeneration) twist which is there to make a synergy with his ulti. In my opinion, Mors C. doesn't fit Lord Salforis. Sure, it might be because I wouldn't enjoy playing Lord as a 290 ms melee nuker who focuses on mana items, neglecting his aura and superior magic damage strikes (i.e. survivability and damage items). I'd like something unique instead of his aoe nuke.
Well, to strike while the iron (hero) is still hot, I'll offer an idea or two regarding a possible alternative to his first skill.
Lord Salforis is great 1 on 1. The damage from the passive, ulti, lifesteal strikes...
- What about a skill that isolates Salforis for several seconds with another hero? I invented a fancy name as well - Lord's Domain.
No, it wouldn't be like 's ability, it would encompass a larger area and heroes outside the domain would have a high miss chance if attacking heroes inside. Magic damage and stun duration would also be reduced from sources outside the area - against both Salforis and the trapped hero(s). Should he be able to trap more than one hero at the same time? Lord's passive aura would ignore all enemy creatures outside his domain, for the duration. Is 8 seconds too much? Uninvited guests can't enter, of course.
-The second idea is simpler. An aoe skill centered on Salforis that on activation steals a few points of physical or magical armor from each enemy hero in, let's say, 600 aoe, and gives it to Salforis for 10 seconds. The player would decide between stealing physical or magical armor, depending on the situation. He needs some... durability, after all.
Mors Certissima is not a very elegant ability, however if it was better and his abilities were as they are now I dare say he would be OP.
Stats are like women in bikinis, they are interesting to look at however they don't show you everything.
I played LS some more while focusing on Life Tap and Presence.Working a lot better than LT and MC I think.
At this point, I think he's well-balanced. Going LT and Presence gives a ton of reliable survivability and DPS. He destroys fragile Heroes and enemy melee lanes, pretty much being able to pull out gank-reversals from the moment of level 1 (so long as you don't go any shitty skill-build - i.e. not Life Tap since it gives movement speed and a massive lifesteal). Maxing Life Tap followed by Presence makes LS absurd in his chasing and reversing - having +40 MS the majority of the time, so long as you have mana, is extremely powerful.
However, he also has a severe counter: mass creeps. Any Hero that can summon creeps are included in the list of counters (Ophelia, Warbeast, Tempest, and Balphagore come to mind). Asides from negating LS' Presence, they also deal a lot of physical damage later on; something LS is not well-equipped against with his low armour and high cooldown on Life Tap at early levels.
Also, Vindicator's aura counters him.
I like salf but mors is pherhaps the worst skill in the game. it costs more mana than the damage it does and is not worth skilling at all except for pushing late game.
Part of me agrees that needs to have more than 1 viable build with LT and PotDL being as strong as they are compared to MC and any other skill. He is in a good place overall, but moving some of his numbers around would be a better idea. He has 2 main problems.
1) Mors is too weak for what it does.
Nerfing slow from LT and giving it to Mors. Making Mors heal based on damage dealt as opposed to a flat amount.
2) Made to counter life healing heroes but only has 1 skill that totally addresses this.
New Presence of the Dark Lord
Deals 10/20/30/40 true damage divided evenly among all enemies nearby with a minimum damage of 10 damage.
Enemies within Presence of the Dark Lord lose heal effectiveness for each 1 damage they would take from PotDL to a maximum of 10/15/20/25% heal reduction.
Maybe even drop the bonus regen from it to make up for the additional power it provides to MC and natural lifetsealing and healing with the % reduction.
He is supposed to be a hero capable of stopping healing and shutting down recovery based strategies... but TU has a far too large of a cooldown and only affects a single target, making him effectively a 1v1 hero.
Overall though, he is in a great spot right now. I love the hero and find him extremely fun to play. Having another build option would be nice though, even if it would mean sacrificing some strength on LT or PotDL for power in MC or TU.
Just don't buff him without taking something in return; he is far too easy to throw into imba land.
The sign of lost Carcosa appeared in the air, paralyzing us with dread older than the very idea of time.
As we looked on in horror, the unholy sign dissolved into a lone figure, shrouded in yellow.
Let's see....we have a hero who can farm out of his mind and suffers from falling off late game even with all that gold. Oh wait - there's an app for that:
I think the real problem he is facing is how hard he Platues late to mid game. There are few items that meet the delicate balance between mana survivability and dmg.
any other hero in the same/similar role can spill over into carrying. His lack of AS is what really hurts him which I'm sure is intended.
I agree his Q is pretty much "useless". Just looking at other heroes comparable(?) skills (witch slayer, pyro, soulstealer) make his look useless.
I know it's not possible to compare skills alone but the extra(?) damage doesn't cover the extra cost.
Adding more damage(with more heal) would make it viable but too good(it would become a mini legionaire ult with better CD and AoE).
I suggest just lowering the cost to 70-90 to make it worth picking it before stats and a viable farming/finisher tool.
Do we really need it to be good enough to have a build around it ? no.
I really like the lifetap/aura build and I'd rather have him remains as he is than losing effectiveness in those to buff his Q.
So, to make it short:
-Could use some buff to his Q, but not at the cost of his other skills.
-Reducing mana cost to make it prior to stats seems most appropriate.
-Increasing damage and heal and keeping the same final damage could do the trick but danger is too much instant damage. Increased synergy with ult.
Salforis picked in tDM vs Fnatic scrim. Performing decently well.